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I walked into a dealer and got a shock....

I walked into a local Hi-Fi dealer with what I thought was just a turntable (Reaga P25 with Sumiko Blackbird Cart) needing minor repair. My vinyl sound has been a bit thin and the platter was making a grinding noise at startup and sometimes needing a push to get the platter moving. I described the rest of my system (Pro-Ject Tube Box SE II, Linn Kollektor, Mac MC402, Dali MS5's) and the size of my room (14x16) and the fact that the CD playback (Marantz DV7600)
It was suggested that my system was not matched and basically "too much electronics for a room that size". They recommended I replace the Linn preamp and the Mac Amp with an Audio Research VSi55 integrated (tubes). The price of the AR is about half of what I paid for the items that would be replaced. I understand price does not always equal performance. But I am shocked, especially since I just bought these items. Any thoughts on this suggested combination?
azmoon
rodman99999
6,206 posts
 
Your Blackbird's compliance at 12x10-6Cm/dyne is considered at the high end of low compliance. Your RB300 tonearm's mass is 11.5gm, which is at the very low end of what's considered "moderate mass". The two should be a very good match up with regards to resonance, which is the primary consideration when picking a combo. Like Dave said; Addressing VTA is everyones' cross to bear, and this saleman's observation was unadulterated BS. Too much electronics for the room? Give me a break!! He must have been selling used cars before he started in audio. I would most definitely take the AR home and try it. you may just fall in love with the fully tubed system. If so: return it and find one here on AudiogoN, or elsewhere. I wouldn't spend a dime at a store that viewed me as a patsy!
jeffb28451
129 posts
 
That's either the biggest crock I've heard in 35 years with this hobby (including sales when I worked my way through college on commission) or some amazing physics: "too much gear in the room". Well, maybe, if the gear keeps you from locating your speakers properly or youlisteing chair is in the middle of a standing wave.

Otherwise, you need either a new dealer or a lot better explanation of what "too much..." means. I think it means they're insulting your intelligence, your ears and your common sense and they think you're foolish enough to buy stuff just because they tell you to. Very suspicious and grossly weird explanation. You've got nice gear.

Maybe if they meant "you have a lot of gear with impedence interface problems that can be cured with a nice integrated", I could understand that, but the way you put it, it sounds like pure, unadultered (and insulting) hogwash.
bjesien
1,363 posts
 
I went from a MA6500 to an Ayre AX7e to the VSi-55 and am happy with my choice. I like the depth of soundstage of the Vsi-55 compared to any SS integrated I've owned. It has less power and is more neutral but it gets the depth and texture of instruments and vocals right. I find this important. I also prefer the Ax7e to the other Mac integrateds I've heard if that helps.

I'd imagine however that the MC402 with a good pre would be a tough act to follow. If you want to buy the C2200 and ship the combo over I'd be glad to send you VSi-55 for a few weeks :)

I think a good dealer will guide you toward a synergy that he feels you will appreciate. I think this takes time and some kind of trusting relationship to get right.
philjolet's avatar
philjolet
2,306 posts
 
I think a dealer will say just about anything, they can not be passive and so sometimes the comments can get pretty lame. "too much electronics for a room that size" is an example.

I sold furniture for a few years in the 80s and I found that the successful salespeople were the ones that pushed their ideas on others, whatever approach they used did not seem to matter as much as the fact that they tried something (no passive helpful types like myself did very well) and if they turned off 90% of the customers the remaining 10% bit and they made a sale.

Sorry to get off topic but it sounds to me like you had an insensative person 'helping' you. Ignoring the tt issue would make me uncomfortable as well.

sorry to get off topic, just my 2cents
mitch2
4,142 posts
 
You ever hear the story about the frog and the scorpion - same thing, except he's a salesman....don't take it personal, just play the game.

Response #1 - "lets get the turntable fixed first, then we can talk about some of your ideas for changes to my system."
Response #2 - "sounds like you have some interesting ideas about my system. I like the way it sounds now so any component change would have to sound substantially better before I would spend the money. If you really think I would like XYZ that much, let me take it home and play it for a week in my system, then I will tell you what I think."
Remember the golden rule... and you have the gold.
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