First used turntable +- $20,000. Any suggestions?

Max,

DO NOT BUY A TURNTABLE USED. There are many good turntables new for under $20,000. Turntables have many parts that can be damaged in shipping. You are really taking a big risk. People are going to post on here how they didn't have any problems buying used online. Trust me for every turntable that comes okay there are ten other ones that come damamged. Then either it can't be repaired or it costs almost as much as buying a new one to fix it.

Second you don't need to spend that much on the turntable. My turntable costs $5,000 and it is more musical than a lot of other more expensive rigs. Why? The turntable itself affects the sound the least. First you need a great phonostage(I recommend the Messenger). Second the cartridge and tonearm have a greater effect on the sound than the table. Now don't get me wrong the table is important it's just the least important componenet in the chain.

Another good thing about buying the table new is that the dealer can set it up for you. I don't care how much you spend on a turntable if it is not setup correctly it will sound like crap. In fact your CD player will probably sound better. I believe that is why a lot of people on audiogon think there CD's sound better. It's because they don't know how to setup their turntables correctly.

Lastly, a properly setup table will blow away any CD player on the market-I don't care how expensive. For those of you who disagree with me you are more than welcome to bring your best CD player over to my house to compare.

Please email me directly if you need any advice.

Justin

If you have 20K to spend you can pretty much buy whatever you want, your budget will allow you to package a table, arm, cartridge and phono stage that is sure to satisfy. You have definately entered into the territory of dimishing returns where you may be throwing money at a table that is marginally better or just sounds different than other tables. Go out and listen and select a deck that matches your existing system and your priorities. Me, I would find a beautiful rebuilt Idler deck, add a great arm, buy a bunch of records and pocket the savings. More money doesn't always buy better sound.

I second the micro seiki but admit my bias is toward vacuum tables. Johan at highend broker (right here on a-gon) also has a great selection of cartridges at great prices. As Raul points out dont forget a good match with step up (if needed) and preamp is critical to maximizing your investment. Take your time there are a lot of great deals here on a-gon and even more opinions.

Justin has made a good point. I would only buy used or a demonstration model if the seller guarantees it, brings it and sets it up for you. Where I don't agree with him is his remark that TTs affect the sound at least. Not so to my ears, especially as far as bass rendition and dynamics, as well as the rendition of transients are concerned. I went from a Thorens to an Oracle to a Goldmund to a Micro Seiki to a Goldmund Reference, old model and then modded that with a new bearing and a few other things and every step made a tremendous difference in the entire tonal presentation. So I would advise you to be careful in choosing, best try to listen to a few brands and setups before you decide. Accept any help you can get and don't rush things. Digital is easier to set up to sound good, though also not without its pitfalls. With analog, to get it to sound right you have to learn a lot and learn it fast, otherwise you might be opening a can of worms.
However, it is worth the effort, believe me and the rituals about playing an LP are much more satisfying than just plunking a CD into a tray an pushing a button, because if you want to get your LP to sound really right, after you have perfected your setup, you'll have to buy a record cleaning machine with all the necessary unctions, which to concoct properly is an arcane science by itself.

Detlof,

Actually I agree with what you said. Let me clarify my opinion. I do believe that the turntable matters especially in the areas you mentioned. I just think that of all the things you can spend your money on in the analog chain you hit the law of diminishing returns the quickest with the table. Case in point. My dealer has a Brinkman with the Brinkman tonearm. I believe the price new is $18,000. My Michelle Orbe with the Graham Phantom and Koetsu Jade sounded better then the Brinkman. The cost of my Orbe is about $5,000. So my point is that you can get more for your $20,000 by buying the right components that will sound good together rather then dropping alot of money on a turntable and then not having enough left over for a good cartridge,tonearm, and phonostage.