Feickert analogue protractor....Owners impressions

All,

Quite a few points to touch on here as this thread continues ...

I. Graham Alignment Technique

Please note that I've not played with the Phantom. My experiences and comments relate to with the 2.2. I believe that the Phantom sets up identically to the earlier Grahams. In any event, consider this to be at a minimum, comments on versions 2.2 and before.

The Graham setup jig, while brilliantly simple in concept and use, is predicated on one step which is difficult to achieve the highest level of accuracy with - setting the pivot to spindle distance. If you pay attention to your technique in this step, you can do quite well. If you don't, then a casual setup with a two-point protractor will be superior.

The great part about the Graham technique is the fact that you use parts machined into the actual tonearm to perform your measurements (the hole drilled in the headshell). What could be better? Well, the answer lies in keeping the unipivot bearing from tilting when you perform this operation. If you can do this, then your pivot to spindle distance will be spot on and life is good.

I've thought about how achieve precision in this step. One method would be to develop some sort of "U" shaped stabilizing part to support the main body of the tonearm so that it doesn't tilt, and thereby distort your pivot to spindle setting. Something so simple as some pieces of cardboard stacked up to the right thickness would likely work fine. I don't have an arm on hand, and thought about this after my 2.2 left my house, so I can't advise you on its construction beyond these passing comments.

II. Feickert

As far as the Feickert is concerned, I got to play with one for the first time this weekend. It provides a nice method of getting a starting point for spindle distance. For the price of the Feickert, you can get three dedicated arc-style protractors from Mintlp. Anyone who has shelled out $250 for a Feickert is obviously serious about their setup, and I'm puzzled why they don't try to compare their results against an arc-style protractor.

Perhaps the promise of the nicely machined parts lends the impression that you can't do better. Well as I've written many times about things analog (as have others), the tool with which you relate to best is the superior tool. Perhaps many relate to the Feickert. I can understand the appeal of a precision machined tool.

III. Arc-Style Protractors

My take on the very critical parameter of pivot to spindle distance is that all non arc-style protractors (including the Feickert) help you to set the pivot to spindle distance in the neighborhood, and nothing more. With the Feickert, you can get to perhaps 0.25 mm. An arc-style protractor will increase your precision in this regard irrespective of your starting point - whether you begin with a .25 mm error or 3 mm.

The way arc-style protractors work can drive you crazy until you understand them, because small changes in pivot to spindle distance (when measured at the record spindle side of the arc) will be multiplied dramatically at the lead-in groove side of the arc. 0.25 mm error at the record spindle side of the arc will translate to about 5 mm at the lead-in side. Therein lies it's beauty, precision, and frustration potential for arc-style protractors.

Palasr (who first pointed me to the Mintlp protractors) articulates the remainder of the argument in favor of arc-style protractors very nicely (as do Tim, Narrod, and Dan_ed), but rather than debate all of this, why don't you all try this out instead of discussing something without having experienced it.

IV. Take the Challenge

I'll tell ya what ... I'll reduce your risk to maybe a buck, and we all know how much that buys on the international market these daze.

I'll send the first 5 people who e-mail me an arc-style protractor made of card-stock material for your tonearm (Baerwaald alignment).

As long as we can establish the effective length of your tonearm, I can make one for you. Please note, that many Japanese tonearms specify weird numbers and we might have to work a bit to get one made for you.

Please e-mail me using this link from the Galibier website (instead of the Audiogon mailer) if you're interested:

http://www.galibierdesign.com/contact.html

Be prepared to send me an 8.5" x 11" envelope with the proper postage on it. If you don't want the postal service to bend it, line the envelope with a piece of cardboard. Again, this applies to the first 5 people who e-mail me.

If you like it, you can order one from Ken Willis or Yip at Mintlp. I'm not interested in being in the protractor business and don't have any financial interest in recommending these products.

The card-stock protractor (as Dan_ed mentioned) was merely a proof of concept experiment, and I supply them with all tonearms I sell, along with a recomendation to contact Yip at Mintlp for the real deal.

V. Fixed Headshell Mount Tonearms (SME)

Oh yes (Smoffatt), you have a challenge in using an arc-style protractor. You'll need one protractor for each cartridge you use, which can be quite expensive. Swampwalker touched on this point with respect to his Schroeder as well.

I believe I went into it in depth on another thread on this forum, but in case I haven't, you can read about it as well as quite a few comments from Palasr, Dan_ed, and Salectric in depth on my forum in this thread:

http://www.galibierdesign.com//phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=75

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Thom

thanks for trying to explain this in more simple terms with the pro's and con's. due to the fact I live in Australia, I'll leave it up to some of the other folks in the US to take advantage of your kind offer.
just a few comments/questions

- Graham - you set the pivot to spindle by using the actual arm and attaching it to the spindle adaptor - should be then perfect. with the magneglide on the phantom - no unipivot wobble.

- Feickert - Exactly what does this tool do, except to align pivot to spindle distance very well. Or can you adjust the overhang like Joe said above.

- looks like arc protractors like Wally / Ken / Mint are the best but most difficult to get right??

Okay, I've procrastinated on this long enough. Thom's post finally swayed me to purchase the MintLp arc protractor. I've used a Wally Tractor before on a different arm and while I liked it the Feickert was quite attractive to me. I'll buy some new LPs with the savings.

As long as we're talking about tonearm alignment in general, I'd like to bring up the experience of my oldest audio friend (both in years of friendship and age). I went to his house to help him set up his new Dynavector Karat 17D3 in his Well Tempered Reference tonearm, using my Turntable Basics protractor, which I think falls into the category of an "arc-style" protractor. The experience was very stressful, because the platter of the WT tt will not stay stable without the drive belt to hold it up, because the WT tonearm is fixed in position by a very difficult to access nut underneath the table, and one must loosen that nut to adjust stylus overhang, because the WT tonearm also has only two holes in the headshell for cartridge mouting with no provision for fore and aft movement of the cartridge, and finally because the DV Karat seems to have an unusually short stylus-to-mounting hole distance. Every time I thought I had the DV stylus tip sitting in the right place, the act of tightening the nut under the table would inevitably twist the vertical shaft at the pivot end and throw out the alignment. We achieved some semblance of success after about 2 hours, but the combo sounded horrible, IMO, because I think the alignment was not good. He subsequently bought a Feikert; I don't know how that works, but he just told me that the alignment on the WT table and tonearm cannot be done with the Feikert, either. I think his frustration is due to the fundamental design of the WT and perhaps the unusually short cantilever on the DV Karat, but it points up the problems that can arise.

Downunder,

I'm not sure if you mean "difficult to get right" to refer to making or using an arc-style protractor. I doubt you are interested in making one, so I'll assume you are talking about using the protractor.

I don't find an arc-style protractor any more difficult to use than my 2-point style protractor. In fact, I find the arc style easier to use and much easier, for me anyway, to get alignment right.

Using any protractor is an iterative process if done correctly. That is, once you get your second point adjustment you really should go back and double check the alignment on the first point. This is also true of the arc-style, with one big exception. With the arc-style nothing is moved except the arm and cartridge. There is no re-aligning of the protractor for the first point. Unless one can do this re-alignment of the protractor with the exact same precision every time, this change in position of the protractor introduces error.

With the arc-style, you find the correct position for the protractor by locating the position in which the stylus lands exactly on the arc at a point near the spindle and a point near, preferably beyond, the outside edge of the platter. BTW, this can't be done unless the P2S distance is right for the specific arc. Once you have this the protractor is fixed in position. Now when you start the process of aligning the cantilever you are only concerned with that alignment and with keeping the stylus on the line. This alone makes the arc-style much easier for me to use.

Now as for how much time and effort one wants to put into the iterations, that is where the difficulty comes in. But this is true for any method or tool one wishes to use to do alignment. How close is close enough becomes a personal choice. My experiences lately with fine tuning cartridge alignment has shown me there is a huge reward for increasing the accuracy. This is no revelation to LP playback, we all know this. Some of us have found a tool that works even better for us to get cartridge alignment even more precise. Others may have a different tool that does the same for them. As always, YMMV.