MC phono stage without transformer?

I will just say that there are several active head amps and phono stages that can handle LOMC at around 0.25 mv so both SUT and head amp are viable. The impact of very small changes in loading of a good SUT (Bent) was very audible in one very revealing analog rig that I've heard and clearly but not very audible in my (at the time moderately revealing) rig. So if you go SUT, make sure you can easily adjust loading (again like the Bent) and then incrementally zero in on the right load. You may need to run resistors in parallel and changes as small as 1 or 2 ohms are audible.

If you have a good MM stage, then I would consider an active gain stage if you can afford it; if you are starting from scratch and the phono stage (internal or external) you are considering has an MC option, whether it is SUT or active gain based, implementation and matching are probably more important than the actual technology. THere was a recent article in S'phile, by MF I think, that discussed the SUT/cart matching issues in depth and he concluded that the "best" SUT depends on which cart it is being used with. And also there are the cabling issues; the "effective" length of the interconnect, if you have an outboard SUT, is "multiplied" by the step up ratio (I'm using the term multiplied loosely; I don't really understand the technical issues involved). With an on-board SUT, IC length is essentially zero, so that drops out of the equation.

if there was a universally applicable answer, then only one of the two technologies would persist. As usual, it depends. With the v. low voltages involved, as Raul indicated, the what "it depends" on becomes very complicated. And esp so with an SUT where the cart/SUT needs to be looked at as a unit.

FWIW, I now use a ZYX ss mc phono/active gain stage into the line stage of a either a tube integrated or a tube pre and OTL amp, with a ZYX cart LOMC cart. I also had v good results from a ZYX head amp into the MM stage of my tube pre; better than the MC stage, but then the MC stage did not have user adjustable loading at all, let along the ability to vary it in very small increments. The ZYX phono and gain stages are not adjustable in any way, but they make magic iwth the ZYX carts. The bass in particular is stunningly good.

Raul, I agree with your post in principal but sut's are an affordable solution to a complex problem. not all of us can throw $12k at our phono pre and a properly implemented sut whether active or not can and does provide an accurate, clean and musical signal. For most systems its a matter of choosing your preferred distortion.(id love to hear your pre amp)

Rccc- cost is of course an issue for most of us, but IIRC, Raul's product (which I have not heard) is as he calls it a "phonolinepreamp" or as most of us call it, a full function pre-amp. If its $12k, that's not out of line for v good similar products like VAC Ren, Atma-sphere MP-1, Asthetix, etc. BAT VK-51 line stage plus standalone phono stage is more than that. Manley Steelhead phonostage is $7k alone w/o a line stage. And that does not consider the bleeding edge products like Audio-note. High end SUTs seem to start at just under $1K, but you still need a phono stage and line stage (integrated or stand-alone) plus cabling and PCs to go with them.

An SUT can be a cost effective solution for sure; perhaps Raul's choice of words "cheap solution for complex problem" could have been different (inexpensive or economical solution to complex problem), but let's not forget that he is not a native English speaker.

Analog rigs are transducers that have very complex mechanical, electrical, and audio issues, so its not surprising that there is "more than one way to skin the cat" and of course many listener's have different priorities and so may favor one design solution over another. For many of us, cost is also a factor. and every design is a compromise in some way. So the "right solution" varies from individual to individual and from rig to rig. Viva la difference!!!

Swampwalker, I completely agree but want to defend the lowly transformer. Lets not forget that the majority of recordings were obsessing over were made with microphones going into the same transformers at the input of the mic pre so your listening to a transformer whether you want to or not.

Dear Swampwalker/Rccc: I agree with both of you because ( as I point it out in my post ) the subject of price is an issue and not everyone can afford an expensive solution even if it is a lot better one.

Anyway, things are that I would like that instead that the analog industry stay making noise about the new SUTs ( that IMHO don't bring any good to the music reproduction and stop the growing up area. ) it will be better that that noise was on the " news " about Phonolinepreamps that could bring several improve steps in our analog perfection quest performance.

It is a SHAME ( for me ) that the Editors of Stereophile/TAS and the like don't do nothing about when their reviewers support with a very high enthusiams the SUTs, how can we ( the analog industry ) grow up? how the designers/builders of active high gain stages ( like Atmasphere, dartzeel, Doshi and many others ) could go to lower prices when the people that are wealthy goes too for the SUTs because a little non know-how about and too much of those professional reviewers that support it?

I'm in favor of better an affordable quality performance for all of us and of all us can/could help for that happen but not like in the SUT case where almost everyone: customers, reviewers and audio dealers forgot a little about quality for business and I think that we can have both quality/business at the same time.

Well it's enough about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.