MC phono stage without transformer?

I agree with Raul on nearly every point save that of the fact that tubes can work very well indeed with low output cartridges, direct.

Rccc, while it is true that there are transformers that were in the signal path in a lot of the recordings you favor, it is misleading at best to say that these are the **same** transformers as in the case of an SUT. Mic input transformers have different requirements as do line output transformers or the output transformer of the tube cutting amp for the LP.

You might be curious to know what an LP could sound like if some of **those** transformers were eliminated; the answer is "better!"

"High end audio" supports a diverse community: tubes, transistors, horns, CDs, LPs, headphones... there are people who are trying to get the best sound they can, those who buy only on cache, those who only care about the music and those for whom the experience of live music in the room is their only goal.

Raul and I represent two aspects of this community wherein we have the same goal of no-holds-barred experience of live music in the home, but he is solid state and I do it with tubes. In both our cases, since we are able to work with some of the best equipment available, the experience of the degradation that transformers bring is easily revealed. This is not so easy for those who have to struggle with a budget, who have sorted out how to get their hands on a low output cartridge but not figured out how to get the gain for it: the SUTs represent a compromise and as good as they get, they will always continue to **be** a compromise.

Raul and I would prefer to work without compromise to the best of our abilities.

A serious problem we all face on audio forums is that audiophiles all use the same terms but we don't have a good measure of the intensity of experience that comes with each term, regardless of the term. So at some point a leap of faith is required and often that leap runs short of expectation :)

In a nutshell, the more resolution you are able to get out of your system, the more artifact you will hear from SUTs.

Atmasphere, I should have said some of the same transformers used for mic pres are also used for mc step up. Im thinking of peerless, byer,neuman and jensen whos mic trans were used for mc step up before they started making purpose built trans for phono. Im using a peerless 4722 which I believe was originally for mic pre input. I agree its far from ideal but they still sound very very good. Making a tube stage that can properly load and amplify a low output mc with no trans is no small feat, my hat is off to you I hope one day I can experience it in my system. Great to have your input (so to speak)

A lot of people never heard a high class step up transformer when they talk that transformers are no good...listen to a Kondo KSL-SFz and into a high class tube phono stage in an appropriate set up and they will forget about their high end solid state phono stages...

Xronx,
That comparison has been conclusively made, and my Nick Doshi Alaap (FET's for MC gain, tubes for MM and line stage gain) isn't going anywhere. A well known Kondo dealer performed the A/B in his own system last year, using a customer's older Alaap that's actually two generations behind the current reference level. Despite that advantage the Kondo dealer reported that his "high class" ($40K) units got "killed" (his word). He tried to sign up as a Doshi dealer, but since Nick only makes 10-12 preamps a year he doesn't need any more dealers.

I think Ralph summed up this subject well,

This is not so easy for those who have to struggle with a budget, who have sorted out how to get their hands on a low output cartridge but not figured out how to get the gain for it: the SUTs represent a compromise and as good as they get, they will always continue to **be** a compromise.

He might have added that any other solution in the same price range as a good SUT will **also** be a compromise. There are no MC head amps in the $1-2K range of a good SUT that don't also represent a compromise. Swampwalker's ZYX head amp is very good, better than my Bent Audio MU's for example, but it's still compromised vs. reference class equipment in a very revealing system.

For those on a budget however, SUT's and head amps both offer viable and - big point - ENJOYABLE ways into the world of LOMC's.

FYI, Viva makes their own transformers. Also, the Sowter 8055 SUT is what Michael Elliott of Counterpoint/Alta Vista Audio/Aria fame prefers and uses.