2. analog
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lps sound bad

I am finally listening to lps after going perhaps 20 years without, due to a recent (about 3 months) investment into a vinyl rig. I'm absolutely bummed that perhaps 30 to 40% of my collection really isn't worth playing due to sonic considerations.

I have an aproximate 2,000 lp collection, nearly all are new album, record show, or garage sale purchases dating from the early 70's thru the mid 80's. These are mostly all very well preserved, with minimal wear, dust pops, scratches etc. My problem is not with the shape or cleanliness of the records (they have been hand cleaned in accordance with 'expert' advice, then cleaned again in a VPI 16.5). Nor are they mistracked, none of that inner groove distortion.

It is also not a setup issue, cartridge setup is absolutely correct, and every other parameter of setup, from the wall shelves/isolation to power cords and ICs has had careful attention.

My issue is in the mastering and/or pressing of the lps. This 30 to 40% have issues, mostly with small soundstaging and/or lack of frequency extension, especially in the bass. They simply sound small scale and lightweight, like mid-fi to me. The other 60 to 70% of my collection sound relatively huge in comparison, large, airy soundstaging, transparent, dynamic, especially the micro dynamics.

Now, the vast majority of the 30 to 40% that sound small scale are what I believe to be, original pressings of 70's rock music. The rest, mostly 50's and 60's recordings from a huge variety of genres, sound wonderful, mostly way better than my digital.

I suspect what I'm hearing is excessive compression due to poor mastering and/or pressing. At this point I'm not sure whether the main culprit is mastering or pressings. As I previously mentioned, most of these recordings were purchased in the early 70's to mid 80's, thus, I believe they are original pressings, which leaves mastering as the culprit. On the other hand, I have digital remasters of a number of these rock recording, a small number sound larger scale than their lp counterparts, which leads me to suspect pressings in some cases.

From this, I extrapolate that mastering is the culprit in most cases. Furthermore, I believe the bad sounding lps sound bad because of solid state recording studio equipment. My 50's and 60's recordings nearly all sound big, large scale, some may not have the greatest frequency extension, especially in the highs, but they all are tonally and dimensionally full, some luciously so, in the midrange. These recordings come from the heyday of tube equipment, both in the recording studio and home audio.

I should add, I'm not trying to make a case of solid state recording studios being the sole culprit here, as a small percentage of my 70's rock recordings sound large scale and satisfying. Rather I think it is solid state done on the cheap, and with bad ears on the part of the producers and engineers that is at fault. The late 60's and early 70's had more than it's fair share of crappy solid state, and most producers and engineers didn't know the first thing about quality sound (as remains the case).

Still, it seems the 50's and 60's producers and engineers could do less harm to the sound, the tube recording equipment always had the relatively voluptuous midrange. And perhaps the tube home audio of the day let them hear at least a semblance of quality, so they tried to replicate that sound in the studio.

As things stand, I'm somewhat disappointed in vinyl at this point. I was hoping these 70's rock recordings would sound much better than their cd counterparts (remastered or not). 30 to 40% of my collection is basically throw away at this point, I don't care to go through all the hassles inherent in the playing of records that sound only as good or worse than their digital counterparts.

I'm now getting the itch to buy lps new, I'm just wondering if the newly minted rock lps of classic rock are worth buying. It seems the digital remasters I have are only marginally better, in most cases, over older digital pressings. I suspect the same will hold true for vinyl, the new remasters will only sound marginally better than my original pressings.

At this point, I'm basically writing off classic rock recordings on lp. While I know classic rock can sound good on lp, the small number of exceptions I've experienced leave me highly skeptical. Future purchases will be mostly limited to recordings (of all genres) prior to the 70's. Future classic rock purchases will be mostly in digital form, for any lp purchases I will have to rely on thumbs up by reviewers I trust. Contemporary recordings are problematic as well, sound quality is all over the place in the digital recording studios, it seems to be a crapshoot, have to rely on reviewers here as well.

Vinyl setup:
VPI Scoutmaster
JMW 10.5i tonearm
SDS
Dynavector 20XL
Cayin Phono-One
sns
sonofjim
557 posts
 
I have bought a few records from Tom and they all have sounded good just as he said they would. I can't justify spending that much very often though. I mostly use that site as a source of valuable information that helps me find my own good sounding copies. He is very against "audiophile" labels in general and I've found a grain of truth in almost everything he says. Most audiophile recordings don't hold up against a good original.
I used to only play audiophile material because I wanted top sound quality(or what I thought was). If I still thought that way I would never play Fair Warning, Aqualung or the White Album and that would truly be a shame.

jaybo
4,478 posts
 
'..but it's like tryin' to tell a stranger 'bout rock'n'roll..'-John B' Sebastian... enjoy.
g_m_c
443 posts
 
Stiltskin, As I said earlier in the thread, I have bought hundreds of hot stampers over the years from Tom. Many Beatles records, my fave, St Peppers is scary good. You are in the studio with the boys, you sense their youthful presence and energy, and almost breathe the air. I have the complete Steely Dan catalog from Tom, it has taken years to acquire, and every one is magical . Several Simon and Garfunkel, James Taylor, Cat Stevens, Neil Young, BS&T, Yes, King Crimson, The Eagles, Grateful Dead, Chicago, an honestly great Who's Next, and so many more. I have put colored labels on the sleeves, so I can find them easily out of the thousands of lp’s. While I certainly listen to many non hot stampers, I have to admit that they get heavy rotation. I read here that people cannot handle the poor sounding classic rock lp’s and I understand. I have been fortunate to find great pressings of my favorite music and I have Tom Port to thank. He is getting more expensive every day and that hurts, but to be frank, the great copies are getting harder to find every day and I am happy that I have invested in Tom’s stuff over the years and I consider his hot stampers to most valuable of anything I own in my audio hobby. Replacing Equipment is always possible, but replacing great records is most certainly not. Having said all of this, I know that I could be happy with many of the newer pressings, they are fine, and the music and notes are all there. The difference is that with a great pressing, you are there.
bongofury
1,160 posts
 
I have been in the concert biz for 30 years and I see people pay scalper prices ALL DAY LONG. Most concerts sound terrible from a sonic perspective in the first rows. I think a better investment is getting the best sounding album. You will get a good 100 to 200 hours of listening enjoyment and it computes to dollars or pennies a listening session. The best sounding ones make you feel you are in the studio. Most fans would pay their left nut to spend just an hour in the studio with their favorite band.
sonofjim
557 posts
 
I discovered Tom Port due to my dissatisfaction with the Cisco Aja and Classics Aqualung. I've been trying to figure him out ever since. Through my correspondece, I genuinely like the guy. His judgement of sound quality is good. When he reccomends a recording, I always agree with him. I don't always agree with the ones he pans though.(For example, he hates Allison Krauss So Long So Wrong which I've always enjoyed on my system) I agree that finding "hot stampers" is a laborious precess but even so I think his prices get very steep. His customers seem very satisfied(as I have been) and his service is excellent. I guess you can't blame a guy for charging what he can. I will probably continue to buy from him occasionally. What he does tend to do, in my opinion, is exagerate how horrible the "average" copy sounds and the scarcity of the descent ones. All part of the business I guess.
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