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VPI HW-19 Upgrade question SAMA or SDS?

OK, the upgrade bug has bitten again, and I know that ther are a number of folks here that have lots of experience with their HW-19.

I have a VPI HW-19 Mk III that I recently upgraded to a Mk IV with a TNT platter with an inverted bearing. Also, it has a sorbathane puck suspension rather than springs, and I've replaced the rubber feet with cone type spikes. The table dead level sitting on top of a 1-1/2"-inch thick maple top shelf of a very heavy flexi-rack. I'm using an ET-2 arm connected to my shop compressor with four stages of precision air-regulation with the final stage adjustable just before at the entering the ET-2. I just air-up the compressor's 30 gallon tank, then kill the compressor so that it won't start back up, and I can listen for hours (wife think that I've lost my mind every time that I do this, but that's another story). Also, I'm currently listening to an AT33PTG that I have come to really like. The phono section is a Threshold SL-10 upgraded with Black Gates throughout.

The Mk IV upgrade made a real difference from the Mk III. As I quickly found out, the Mk IV presents a fuller soundstage and better base than the Mk III platter/bearing. I view that upgrade as well worth the money, especially buying it used here on A'gon.

Here is my dilemma with funds being limited to purchase only one or the other at this time, but not both - at least for now.

What do you think would be the best upgrade for this HW-19? A new SAMA for $400, or a used SDS for $600 to $800? Used SAMAs never seem to come up for sale, but you can always find a used SDS on Audiogon. I think that there are at least three available for sale here as I write this.

Also, if someone thinks neither mentioned upgrade would be cost effective, and that money would be better spent with an upgrade elsewhere, please say so. I'm trying to keep my mind and ears open - for better sound!

Thank you!
forrestc
frogman
7,467 posts
 
Ferrari, if you have never tried going the no-spring, low-compliance suspension route, you really owe it to yourself to try it. Results will vary depending on where the table is situated and the tonearm used. Try tall tiptoes facing up, with a thin rubber disc, like the rubber disc that goes over the spindle, and under the record clamp, underneath the cones. Having said that, I have a set of unused springs that I bought from VPI years ago, when I first bought the MK IV upgrade platter. These are the stiffer springs needed for the heavier plattrer. I tried a variety of different suspensions and found that I liked the aforementioned short tiptoes facing up, on top of sorbothane pucks. I use a ET2 air-bearing arm that likes a more rigid less compliant suspension. If you are interested in the springs, how about a trade for that Brubeck/Desmond Stardust LP that you have on sale?

Best regards.
ferrari
617 posts
 
Frogman - yep we can do that deal e mail me.
emorrisiv
313 posts
 
I have a HMW19 jr with the sorbothane pucks. I have been experimenting with the suspension (of which there is very little)by putting hardened steel cam follower shims from my old Suzuki 750 on top of the sorbothane.The shims are VERY hard and seems to give the jr. slightly faster attack while still allowing the suspension to work. A very easy and free tweek. I would think that 50cent pieces would work as well, but that would cost $2.00,,,lol.
I plan on building a DIY SAMA. Anyone else done this? I would think it would be a fairly easy project. I think the main obstacle is giving the motor assy. sufficient mass to not move around on the base (in this case a very big and thick butcher block).
I was considering using a large PVC pipe with a threaded cap on the bottom for height adjustment with a big chunk of lead inside or perhaps lead shot.

comments and suggestions welcomed.

e
flyfish2002's avatar
flyfish2002
94 posts
 
I have a TNT that I have taken along the upgrade path. I have found the SDS to be preferred prior to upgrading the SAMA.
ferrari
617 posts
 
For my use with my HW 19 MK IV I have found that the SDS offers more flexability than the SAMA. I took the SDS out of the system for awhile and found that the overall sonic presentation was not at a level with the SDS in the system. The SDS makes a decided improvement in overall sonic signature and will remain in the system. The only reason to use the SDS with the HW 19 series is to remove the motor from the chassis and eliminate vibration from the motor to the chassis. The SDS approach is different in that it reduces to a vanishing point the motor vibration from 115 Volts down to 72 Volts. Plus it adds the abilty to switch from 33 to 45 rpm, without manually changing drive belt from one groove to another. While somewhat pricey the SDS is a very highly recommended component, that will enhance the playback of any VPI turntable. If analog is your bag, then this is a must have.
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