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Our home system: How good it is?

My music sound philosophy/reference is the live music/event that unfortunately I can’t mimic on my system or in any other audio system that I heard. I always say that the very best we can achieve is to be nearer to the recording and even this target is a little “ elusive “ to get for say the least.

Through my audio life I heard a lot of different audio systems: I heard it on audio shows, on dealer rooms and on home people’s systems.

With out any doubt the best audio system performances that I already experienced were/are on home systems where I learn several subjects ( including the people music sound priorities ) and one-two of them are the in deep care in the SET UP of each link on the whole audio chain ( including room ). Some of high price systems that I heard it are not very good because its “ lesser “ care on the each link SET UP.

I want to share with all of you my latest experiences that I had 2-3 weeks ago when I visit some audio friends on USA.
I was exposed to 7 different home systems and I share with you my thoughts on only 4 of those home audio systems that I consider have nothing less but top/first rate performance and where I really enjoy the music.

First than all I want to say that all those audio friends were very gentle and with a very high sense on hospitality: thank you in deep to every one for that I really appreciate it in every way including your very value time that you take/give me.

The best subject during my visit to each one of those great people was to know/meet them: meet people with an in deep knowledge on music ( music lovers more than hardware lovers.), with in deep audio experiences, with in deep know how on their each priorities, with in deep care on whole room-system SET UP, with a great software, with an open mind to share and to accept different points of view, with in deep understanding that there are no perfect systems, with a “ humility “ attitude that it is a must to have to grow-up and with the enjoy “ feeling “ of music listening.

This was a very rare opportunity that I enjoy it and that I know I was so lucky about: Thank you again to all of you!!!!

In no order of preference here it is:

HOUSTON: Fred’s place with a dedicated audio room. Acapella big Triolon speakers, Einstein front end electronics, Rockport/Titan i analog rig, Nordost, JC-1s amps, etc.

When the first music note comes from this system you know that it is something special and after a few minutes you forgot about the hardware and start to enjoy fully the software ( either analog/digital ).
The system is so easy to transmit the music “ feelings/emotions “ and let that the sound/music flow directly to your mind.

Those Triorlon are really great and my hat off to Acapella people because they blend three different speaker drivers in an almost perfect mix. I don’t like ( but the immediacy ) horns ( I heard many of them ) and the Triorlon’s has two of them in the midrange frequency range and I have to say that these horns are the lower horn-signature that I ever heard, the mid bass/bass are moving coil drivers and the Plasma tweeter is ( probably ) the speaker star but with out saying “ I’m here “, like I say almost perfect driver blend.

BOISE: Steve’s place with a dedicated audio room. MBL 111 speakers, custom made Berning’s monoblock amplifiers, Technics SP10 MK3 with a Steve self design/build gorgeous plinth with Schroeder Reference tonearm and strain gauge cartridge/front end by Soundsmith and Lyra Olimpos.

This was my three time that I heard MBL speakers and my first time on a home system: what a difference!!!!, these system/speakers are so near the real music that, like in Fred’s system, the only think that you want is to hear music and more music: LP after LP and again!!!!

Those custom made amplifiers are very good match to the MBL’s and has the lower coloration of tube-signature amplifier I ever heard. I know that the MBL speakers are not easy/friendly with tube electronics and in this system everything is on target, of course that Steve’s hand on this count a lot for that.

I experienced here two different quality performance sound: the Soundsmith one ( that is good ) and a MC cartridge one. I have to say that the Soundsmith rig was only 20-30 hours from new and even Steve was “ playing “ with the set-up. Anyway IMHO that day the Lyra quality performance was way better and I enjoy it for many hours. With this MC cartridge things ( great things ) come out specially the non-sense audio system: disappear!, I had only the LP music performance: great performances.

DALLAS: Louis’s place with a dedicated audio room. Kharma Exquisite 1A speakers, CAT’s monobloks ( new ones: 30 hours on it. ), Lamm/Aesthetix front end electronics, Garrad 301/Triplanar/Xv-1and Technics SP-10MK3/SME/Air Tight both with a custom made wood plinths and the 301 with a custom made power supply.

First thing you note at Loui’s place is that huge room, the biggest I ever know ( maybe 2.3 times the Steve or Fred ones that are big. ) in a home stereo system.

Here I think that the stars are those 550 pound each speakers and its room good integration ( not an easy task ). Like the other systems this one is different but really good. This is my second time hearing Kharma speakers and I have to say that are very very good performers.

The whole sound is a refined/sophisticated one where you or anyone are asking for more, not more quality but more time to heard/hear and enjoy music. I was surprised by the 301 rig quality performance ( where I know very well the XV-1 quality. ): first rate, I can’t hear any coloration that I can/could say: “ that’s was the 301 “.

As good as I heard that system Louis told me that through his Lamm amplifiers ( SE 15-18 watts ) the quality of the system’s sound is a step higher!!, unfortunately I can’t hear it with these amplifiers. Anyway a pleasure to hear it on the Cats.

SAN DIEGO: Mark’s place with out a dedicated audio room ( the system belongs to the sitting room ). Revel speakers, Threshold amplifier, Hovland front end electronics and Raven/Triplanar/Ruby 2.

It seems the “ modest “ system on the group but a top quality performer where we know immediately the very hard work that Mark made to achieve that high quality performance. I know very well the Ruby 2 and in this system is something to hear.
Here there is no single “ star “ but a very good set up of audio items group that sounds a lot better that some very high price systems that I heard, money means nothing at all with out whole/overall knowledge.

As different as are all these audio system all them share common things: system whole synergy, when you heard it you know everything is there ( soundstage, good tonal balance, inner detail, transparent, fast response, dynamics, etc, etc, ), nothing is telling you “ I’m here “ ( very well balance ), sounds good with different kind of music and at different SPL levels, you can heard it for many hours and enjoy every minute, etc, etc.

Are these audio system “ perfect “ ?, certainly not: nothing is. Their owners ( all of them ) already know that they have “ land “ to improve and more important that this fact is that all them know where to improve.

Something to “ ask “ to these systems?, well as you know I’m for full range ( octave to octave ) audio systems and if I put really exigent then I can say that all these system “ miss “ the last bass octave/half octave. This bass octave is system/room dependent and speaker design specification dependent: non of those speakers were designed to achieve that low bass frequency range with the same high quality of the other frequency ranges.
Anyway I can say that I never feel the necessity of that bass octave during all those many hours of music pleasure hearing all those audio systems.

It is a nice thing to learn, through other home audio system listening experiences, if what we have at home is in the right “ road “ and this fact help all of us to grow up in the quest of home audio music sound reproduction heaven.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
I’m for full range ( octave to octave ) audio systems and if I put really exigent then I can say that all these system “ miss “ the last bass octave/half octave. This bass octave is system/room dependent and speaker design specification dependent: non of those speakers were designed to achieve that low bass frequency range with the same high quality of the other frequency ranges.

We are on the same page here. I think that rolled off bass is better than poor quality bass. I agree that 20 to 40 HZ is extremely difficult to do accurately and rarely can it be achieved with any degree of accuracy at even modest SPL's (as one typically finds possible from most any tweeter).

This is not a limitation of the wonderful systems you visited and heard. This is physics. If you really need accurate down to 20 HZ at say 120 db SPL with less than 1% distortion (a reasonable requirement for 20Hz which is barely audible anyway) then I'd suggest multiple extremely large sealed box subs with 15" woofers. Four of them would probably do it in a large room. Often impractical from an aesthetics and space point of view. Those with two JL fathoms in a modest size room can't be all that far off but even these mosnters struggle at 20 Hz to maintain low distortion.
fcrowder
191 posts
 
First, thanks for the nice comments about the Triolons; however, even more thanks for the candid comments/criticism which you offered at my home. Too often visitors are fast to praise but reluctant to offer honest criticism. Perhaps part of that is that we too often fail to ask visitors to bring software that they are familiar with and know well enough on a known reference to evaluate what they are hearing. Raul has at least five vinyl references that he knows well and has played on a variety of systems and he is not shy about asking one to play those albums. Every system that I have heard represents it own set of tradeoffs. The only difference with well thought out systems is that the tradeoffs are better chosen and if the owner has sufficient funds, perhaps fewer. I am in the process of replacing my Parasounds with Audio Note Balanced Kegons which I hope will be an even better solution; however, there is never any guarantee. Even with ideal amps, my system will lack much of the octave from 16-32 Hz. Raul has suggested some possible solutions and I intend to follow up on them in the future.
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
Raul, many thanks for taking us on your wonderful audio journey. i had not previously been familiar with Mark's system (that i know of) but the other three are ones well known and i read with interest your personal 'take' on the character of each. each one seems to be a personal expression of their owner's audio viewpoint.

what better way to explain our hobby than to read about your trip, and the time spent with each host. so many versions of audio nirvana.

again, thanks.
elinor's avatar
elinor
275 posts
 
Dear Raul,

You do me honor to have mentioned and praised my system during your trip to San Diego. Only in this crazy hobby could a system retailing at about $50K be considered a "budget" system, my words not yours. You are so right about high end audio performance and "synergy" in a system. Choice of components, set-up, wires, speaker placement in a non-dedicated room are paramount in what an audio system will reproduce. Of course, the most important ingredient is the "musical ear" that is used to judge and choose the equipment. Unfortunately, that is the key ingredient that cannot be purchased at the audio store but it is the final ingredient that gives a system its tonality and ultimately its sense of realism. As we discussed, the live event does not exist in your listening room. It is in the concert hall, the opera house, and the jazz club. I have been fortunate in having had the time and money to spend hundreds if not thousands of hours all over the world at the live events in the best venues many times.

Thank you for your honesty in judging my system Raul. I agree with Fcrowder when he says that many listeners will praise your system when they don't necessarily mean it either because they don't have the experience, the right software, or because they are afraid of offending you. I take your praise and criticism seriously because I know how many years you have in audio and because you have owned practically everything known in the industry over the years.

Regarding the path to something greater in my system, I see the Essential 3160 Preamp as being a major step in that direction and I hope to take it in the next couple of years. Rest assured, I have spoken glowingly to all my audio friends about your wonderful preamp. I cannot wait for the day when it graces my room. It is always great to be on the same musical page with someone who is in the hobby and the business.

Best Regards,

Mark
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rauliruegas OP
13,063 posts
 
Dear Shadorne: I agree with you and I can add that it is not only to have that low bass octave in " quantity " but more important with the same quality of the other sound reproduction frequency ranges, this target is not easy to achieve/find.

This last subject about quality has many little issues and one of them is to have the right quality signal that goes on the subwoofers.
This means that you have to have the right preamp that can gives that low bass octave in the right high quality way.

IMHO that bass quality subject is of paramount importance.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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