2. analog
  3. 1219677256

Our home system: How good it is?

My music sound philosophy/reference is the live music/event that unfortunately I can’t mimic on my system or in any other audio system that I heard. I always say that the very best we can achieve is to be nearer to the recording and even this target is a little “ elusive “ to get for say the least.

Through my audio life I heard a lot of different audio systems: I heard it on audio shows, on dealer rooms and on home people’s systems.

With out any doubt the best audio system performances that I already experienced were/are on home systems where I learn several subjects ( including the people music sound priorities ) and one-two of them are the in deep care in the SET UP of each link on the whole audio chain ( including room ). Some of high price systems that I heard it are not very good because its “ lesser “ care on the each link SET UP.

I want to share with all of you my latest experiences that I had 2-3 weeks ago when I visit some audio friends on USA.
I was exposed to 7 different home systems and I share with you my thoughts on only 4 of those home audio systems that I consider have nothing less but top/first rate performance and where I really enjoy the music.

First than all I want to say that all those audio friends were very gentle and with a very high sense on hospitality: thank you in deep to every one for that I really appreciate it in every way including your very value time that you take/give me.

The best subject during my visit to each one of those great people was to know/meet them: meet people with an in deep knowledge on music ( music lovers more than hardware lovers.), with in deep audio experiences, with in deep know how on their each priorities, with in deep care on whole room-system SET UP, with a great software, with an open mind to share and to accept different points of view, with in deep understanding that there are no perfect systems, with a “ humility “ attitude that it is a must to have to grow-up and with the enjoy “ feeling “ of music listening.

This was a very rare opportunity that I enjoy it and that I know I was so lucky about: Thank you again to all of you!!!!

In no order of preference here it is:

HOUSTON: Fred’s place with a dedicated audio room. Acapella big Triolon speakers, Einstein front end electronics, Rockport/Titan i analog rig, Nordost, JC-1s amps, etc.

When the first music note comes from this system you know that it is something special and after a few minutes you forgot about the hardware and start to enjoy fully the software ( either analog/digital ).
The system is so easy to transmit the music “ feelings/emotions “ and let that the sound/music flow directly to your mind.

Those Triorlon are really great and my hat off to Acapella people because they blend three different speaker drivers in an almost perfect mix. I don’t like ( but the immediacy ) horns ( I heard many of them ) and the Triorlon’s has two of them in the midrange frequency range and I have to say that these horns are the lower horn-signature that I ever heard, the mid bass/bass are moving coil drivers and the Plasma tweeter is ( probably ) the speaker star but with out saying “ I’m here “, like I say almost perfect driver blend.

BOISE: Steve’s place with a dedicated audio room. MBL 111 speakers, custom made Berning’s monoblock amplifiers, Technics SP10 MK3 with a Steve self design/build gorgeous plinth with Schroeder Reference tonearm and strain gauge cartridge/front end by Soundsmith and Lyra Olimpos.

This was my three time that I heard MBL speakers and my first time on a home system: what a difference!!!!, these system/speakers are so near the real music that, like in Fred’s system, the only think that you want is to hear music and more music: LP after LP and again!!!!

Those custom made amplifiers are very good match to the MBL’s and has the lower coloration of tube-signature amplifier I ever heard. I know that the MBL speakers are not easy/friendly with tube electronics and in this system everything is on target, of course that Steve’s hand on this count a lot for that.

I experienced here two different quality performance sound: the Soundsmith one ( that is good ) and a MC cartridge one. I have to say that the Soundsmith rig was only 20-30 hours from new and even Steve was “ playing “ with the set-up. Anyway IMHO that day the Lyra quality performance was way better and I enjoy it for many hours. With this MC cartridge things ( great things ) come out specially the non-sense audio system: disappear!, I had only the LP music performance: great performances.

DALLAS: Louis’s place with a dedicated audio room. Kharma Exquisite 1A speakers, CAT’s monobloks ( new ones: 30 hours on it. ), Lamm/Aesthetix front end electronics, Garrad 301/Triplanar/Xv-1and Technics SP-10MK3/SME/Air Tight both with a custom made wood plinths and the 301 with a custom made power supply.

First thing you note at Loui’s place is that huge room, the biggest I ever know ( maybe 2.3 times the Steve or Fred ones that are big. ) in a home stereo system.

Here I think that the stars are those 550 pound each speakers and its room good integration ( not an easy task ). Like the other systems this one is different but really good. This is my second time hearing Kharma speakers and I have to say that are very very good performers.

The whole sound is a refined/sophisticated one where you or anyone are asking for more, not more quality but more time to heard/hear and enjoy music. I was surprised by the 301 rig quality performance ( where I know very well the XV-1 quality. ): first rate, I can’t hear any coloration that I can/could say: “ that’s was the 301 “.

As good as I heard that system Louis told me that through his Lamm amplifiers ( SE 15-18 watts ) the quality of the system’s sound is a step higher!!, unfortunately I can’t hear it with these amplifiers. Anyway a pleasure to hear it on the Cats.

SAN DIEGO: Mark’s place with out a dedicated audio room ( the system belongs to the sitting room ). Revel speakers, Threshold amplifier, Hovland front end electronics and Raven/Triplanar/Ruby 2.

It seems the “ modest “ system on the group but a top quality performer where we know immediately the very hard work that Mark made to achieve that high quality performance. I know very well the Ruby 2 and in this system is something to hear.
Here there is no single “ star “ but a very good set up of audio items group that sounds a lot better that some very high price systems that I heard, money means nothing at all with out whole/overall knowledge.

As different as are all these audio system all them share common things: system whole synergy, when you heard it you know everything is there ( soundstage, good tonal balance, inner detail, transparent, fast response, dynamics, etc, etc, ), nothing is telling you “ I’m here “ ( very well balance ), sounds good with different kind of music and at different SPL levels, you can heard it for many hours and enjoy every minute, etc, etc.

Are these audio system “ perfect “ ?, certainly not: nothing is. Their owners ( all of them ) already know that they have “ land “ to improve and more important that this fact is that all them know where to improve.

Something to “ ask “ to these systems?, well as you know I’m for full range ( octave to octave ) audio systems and if I put really exigent then I can say that all these system “ miss “ the last bass octave/half octave. This bass octave is system/room dependent and speaker design specification dependent: non of those speakers were designed to achieve that low bass frequency range with the same high quality of the other frequency ranges.
Anyway I can say that I never feel the necessity of that bass octave during all those many hours of music pleasure hearing all those audio systems.

It is a nice thing to learn, through other home audio system listening experiences, if what we have at home is in the right “ road “ and this fact help all of us to grow up in the quest of home audio music sound reproduction heaven.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,063 posts
 
Dear friends: ++++ " You are so right about high end audio performance and "synergy" in a system. Choice of components, set-up, wires, speaker placement in a non-dedicated room are paramount in what an audio system will reproduce " +++++

SYNERGY is an easy word, hard to achieve and with several " roads ".

Synergy always help to improve the quality sound reproduction in an audio system if we understand what does mean " synergy ".

For professional reviewers MF/AD and the like and for some people synergy means to compensate an audio item/system distortion with other audio item distortion, that's it adding distortion to another distortion.
That's why you can read on reviews or some posts on Agon something like this: " if your system/speakers are on a bright side plese don't use this cartridge/cable/amp/etc that it is on the bright side too. "

So those people/reviewers determined that that cartridge/cable/amp/etc that they are evaluating is " bright " with out think that maybe that audio item is really neutral/transparent/accurate and it is showing a trouble ( bright ) somewhere in the main audio system other than the evaluated item it self.

This remember me what an audio friend made when he change his system speakers for a new ones ( 40K+ ) and he determined that the new speakers had a problem ( does not sound good enough ) due to its active crossover and decided to change it by it self with out take in count that with " one finger " ( that change ) he modified every speaker designer's single targets/effort ( frequency response, IMD, filter slopes, phase response, overall voicing, etc, etc ), why this person can't think that maybe the trouble was somewhere in other link system chain?: big mistake and we have to learn from these kind of mistakes: I have to say that sometime I made/make mistakes and learn from it.

So, I'm against compensation trying to have system synergy, IMHO synergy means ( other things the same ) subjects like: tonearm/cartridge matching, speaker/amplifier impedance matching, preamp/amplifier impedance matching, speaker/cable/amp matching, cartridge/load impedance matching, etc, etc, where I'm looking for lower distortion/lower noise/lower colorations/accuracy/etc/etc.
A mistmatch on preamp/amp impedance increment the distortions/colorations, example: an amp with an input impedance of 600 Ohms is a " pain in the ass " for any single preamp out there, you have to take extremely care the right preamp with the right impedance for that low impedance input amplifier.

Sometimes we have un-matched items because of non know how an example of this was what I " live " in the audio system of that guy with is " new " audio item ( my last post here ) where he mate the wrong tonearm/cartridge each other ( I don't know if he bought the tonearm or the cartridge first ) but he think is right.

Btw, he is using a long ( 12" ) tonearm and when I ask him why he choose a long one his answer was something that till today I can't understand: " because the TT was designed for long tonearms ", well I know very well that TT and there is nothing that can/could tell you that was designed for long tonearms, the only reason about: poor know how.

That's why I say that synergy is an easy word but hard to achieve, we not only have to have experience, time, money but in deep know how and because of all these subjects is that I give all my respect and " hat off " not only to those four people systems named here but other people like: Spencer, Joe, Doug, Tim; Ctm, Dennis, Desmond, Lim, Bill and some others that I forget their names ( sorry for this ).

So, try to achieve synergy ( lesser mistakes and better trade-offs. ) on your system!!!

regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
goldeneraguy
442 posts
 
Raul,
What I have come to believe from reading these forums is that audiophiles in general wont accept the opinion of an unbiased listener.In fact you can lose a friend by stating that you thought the previous component sounded better then the new $10K +++ product they just placed in their system.
We read reviews and tend to agree with what is written rather then what we hear.Whats worse is that rather then admit we made a bad purchase we argue that it needs more break in time or new footers or cabling or anything else that the reviewer or dealer calls SYNERGY.
As you stated,in Audioland opposites do not attract.
I have been guilty of all the above and only after many years and finally a cohesive system i can admit to it.
There is a thread that asks "how much does your system retail for"I have stayed away from posting to it because my system retails for about $50K but I actually paid about $200K with all the early mistakes I made.
Whoops,now i hope my wife doesn't read this.
Raul,thanks again

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,063 posts
 
Dear Elinor: +++++ " Of course, the most important ingredient is the "musical ear" that is used to judge and choose the equipment. Unfortunately, that is the key ingredient that cannot be purchased at the audio store but it is the final ingredient that gives a system its tonality and ultimately its sense of realism... " +++++

You put the finger on the ulcer/sore. It does not matters how high price is your system, which top names has your links system, which experiences do you have, etc, etc, if we don't have an educated/cultivated ears we can't grow up and this subject ( personal characteristic ) is very elusive more that we can think about and ( like you say ) something that we can't buy .
It is a matter not only to have " educated ears " but good ears that can discern on soun quality performance and that can detect in-accuracies elsewhere the audio system.
The person that I already refer on some subject can't heard/hear differences on 1-2 db in his phono stage between gain channels obviously this kind of people have a very hard time to conform/set-up a good system quality performance.

Educated ears/good ears are a must to have to enjoy in full dimension the music and not only " lifeless sound ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,063 posts
 
Dear Goldeneraguy: I agree totally with you on all those different subjects.

IMHO I think that like in other knowledge disciplines in audio exist a " learn curve " that all of us not only must pass through but in some ways is endless and all of us are in between that " learn curve ".

Many times we want to grow-up and changing audio links we think we are growing up when in reallity ( example ) sometimes we made two back steps: to understand this fact is very important because if we don't note that back step it is almost impossible to be on the right learn-curve " road " .

All our mistakes are a very important part of that learn-curve as the good decisions.
Where we are ( what we think ) is not so important like where really we are ( for what we think and what other think about ), I think that when what we think goes/even where we really are not only confirm that we are in the right " road " but give us true confidence to drive us in that learn.curve to achieve more steps foreward on our system quality performance improvement.

I like that learn-curve and I try every subject orthodox or un-orthodox to grow-up trying not to loose my music sound audio targets.

Anyone can say: I'm done, my learn-curve finish, I can't say it but if you anyone can say it please share with us.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,063 posts
 
Dear Goldeneraguy: +++++ " I have been guilty of all the above and only after many years and finally a cohesive system..... " +++++

me too, as I posted we must pass through the " learning curve ".

Now, there are mistakes because non know-how and there are mistakes with know how about, as we grow up on the " LC " these ones are the ones where when we fix it permit to grow faster and with confidence about.

I remember some of the non know how mistakes that I made over time, examples: I use not two but four loudspeakers in front of me, sometimes two of them out of phase ( or something " crazy " ) sometimes two of them at the rear of my room. On those times I use two equlizers ( Soundcraftsman and MXR in cascade ) and one DBX expander that sometimes I put between the eq.'s, sometimes before them and sometimes after them!!!!, I'm not only bi-amping my system but tetra-amp ( four amps each side ) with four different amplifiers!!! ( big, big mistake. )

In those old times things were more " easy " ( because that non know how ), I don't worry about tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency, about step-up transformers, about cartridge compliance or output level, about TT mats or clamps, about special power cords or IC and speaker cables, about system racks, about room treatment or seating room position, about amplifier output impedance, about distortions/colorations, about tube or SS technology, about footers or vibration systems, about DD or BD TT, about cleaning LP's other that D'washer, about VTA/SRA or Azymuth, about RIAA accuracy, about and about and about.... etc, etc., like I say it: " more easy " audio life, do you remember?

The in deep know how has a " price " a high one that we have to pay where the reward always is/are well worth it.

My learning curve is exactly that: a learning one till today!!!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
More to discover