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Typical upgrade path from VPI?

I've had my Scoutmaster w/Sig arm for a couple months. It came with a Shelter 501 MkII cartridge setup by Elusive Disc. I've since had it re-setup and between that and break in, it improved.

I've recently added a 3g headshell weight (as per suggestions). Unfortunately, my main complaint still lingers: lack of midbass. I can switch to a CD (Benchmark DAC among others) and midbass seems fine, but absent on the TT. I get LOW bass (if there's low bass on the recording, I hear it as if I have a subwoofer), but mid-upper bass is weak.

It could be the Shelter, I realize this. I am willing to try another cartridge, and in searching threads on this, I read a lot of comments suggesting that the JMW tonearm (even sig version) is only so good (i.e. don't buy an expensive cartridge).

If one wants to bring things to the next level, are there compatible tone-arms? I also read complaints about the pivot tech of VPI, which suggests another TT may be something to consider.

So I'm curious as to what other brands of TT I should consider.

My system:
Rhea Signature phono
ARC Ref 3 preamp
Theta Citadel 1.5 amps
Speakers are still being auditioned (Dynaudio, Rockport in the running).

Thanks
madfloyd
madfloyd OP
411 posts
 
Just to answer a few questions:

- I'm not auditioning speakers with the TT, I'm using various sources (CDs etc)

- I'm currently using a Tube Box SE II while my Rhea is being repaired. My dealer adjusted the load settings.

Thanks again for the advice. I'll look into sourcing a cheap cartridge; that's a good idea.
photon46
1,088 posts
 
Anyone who says the VPI doesn't play rock well has theirs set up wrong, crazy bad system synergy, or has most unusual perspectives on sound. Hopefully, your Aesthetix will be back soon and you can try different load settings. I'd think it's possible your Pro-ject is a culprit here. It sounds possible that your dealer is on a power trip and is trying to make their customers too dependent on their expertise. You can look up the Dynavector on VPI's accessories section of their website and order it yourself. If you were able to reinstall your Shelter without grief, you can install the Dynavector fine also. One last word of advice, you'll find detractors and irrational enthusiasts giving their opinions about every manner of product out there. When a product has sold well and the numbers are there, I look for a consensus opinion and ignore the fringes.
dopogue
1,773 posts
 
What's under the turntable? I just did the "full Pierre (Sprey)" under my 70 lb replinthed Lenco and have been amazed at the improvement, though I can't single out the mid-bass region specifically.

This setup calls for very heavy Mapleshade brass cones under the turntable, a 20x24x2" maple platform under the cones, and four double IsoBlocks (rubber-cork things) between the maple platform and the equipment rack. I had something similar before, but the difference is not subtle. Good luck, Dave
thaluza's avatar
thaluza
285 posts
 
VPI's do not lack mid-bass, IME. I used to have an Aries 2 for about 3 years in my system and really liked it. I ran it with the JMW 9 and later an SME IV, both tonearms set up with a Benz Micro Reference cartridge. Mid-bass was quite tuneful and satisfying with either tonearm. Upgrading to another table, arm, and cartridge combo brought a much quieter background and more image focus and detail, but the mid-bass has not been dramatically different.

One way to improve mid-bass, perhaps, is to tweak the isolation under the table. I have a solid mass rack from Billy Bags (I like how it looks). I recently added a Grand Prix Monaco stand with Apex footers under my turntable and I noticed a significant improvement in the mid-bass. That was an eye opener, as I thought the sound was already suberb before the Grand Prix stand. The mid-bass is where I really noticed the difference.

Also, is your subwoofer properly integrated with your main speakers? Perhaps try auditioning your speakers without the subwoofer and see if the mid and low bass are integrated better.

Bottom line is I wouldn't give up on the VPI if the problem is mid-bass. I think the problem is elsewhere.
sonofjim
557 posts
 
Madfloyd,
Glad you're staring to adjust things yourself. It will take practice but eventually you'll get much better results that way because you'll be willing to put in the time. It's kind of like washing your car. No one else will do it as thoroughly as you will. If you want it done right, do it yourself. In this case there's a learning curve though. I said this, sort of, in your other thread accidently but it is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to say that a VPI table can't play this or that kind of music well or don't put an expensive cartridge on a VPI. You can play or do anything you want to with a VPI. You can also get wonderful results. Buy whatever table you want but don't take the opinion of every nay sayer out there as fact. It's mostly a matter of preference. Set up is everything. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
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