Record is noisier after cleaning:


Hello, I have recently got back into Vinyl and am enjoying it so far except for one frustrating thing at the moment.
I have fielded this question on another forum as well (just so you know), but I thought it couldn't hurt to get some thoughts here as well.

I have the Pro-Ject Xpression III I bought about 12 days ago.
I listened to a new LP of Dave Brubeck's Time Out without cleaning it. It sounded wonderful, very quite, just a couple of pops on side 1.

Then a few days later I got the VPI 16.5. Yesterday I cleaned the very same record using the VPI RCF and brush that came with the machine. I followed the VPI instructions only. I played the record right away after the cleaning and surprisingly it was noisier then before the cleaning. There were many more pops and clicks. The surface noise during the quieter tracks was much higher.

I've been using a carbcn fibre brush before every play and also one of those dry stylus brushes as well.

Afterwards I tried some other ideas. I cleaned the record again but this time after the vacuuming I let it air dry for an hour. It seemed to be quieter then before but still not near the noise free it was before.

I played it again this morning to get a reference and then cleaned it a third time but this time I also rinsed it with distilled water twice and vacuumed it one rotation each time for the rinse. I played it and again it is noisy.

I don't see any obvious dirt or lint on the stylus. Anyway, I played a used clean copy of Oscar Peterson's we get request without cleaning it on my VPI and it sounded very nice. Very little surface noise and I don't think I heard any pops and clicks if I remember correctly. So I don't think my stylus is really badly dirty or anything.

So I am not sure what is happening, why the Time Out LP has become noisier after the cleaning. I am afraid of cleaning my other new records right away until I know what I am doing wrong.

Also, it appears the VPI RCF and brush isn't very popular. Is that correct? Should I get another RCF and brush?

Thanks,

-- Sanjay
schugh
Try vacuuming for more than one rotation after applying the fluid. You may be leaving behind some of the fluid that you have applied to the record surface. Let it go for three or four revolutions and see if this helps.

This will likely introduce more static onto the LP; so use a carbon fiber brush afterwards and before playing. Zerostat would be ideal.

In short, I would experiment with different methods of cleaning, but as the responses above suggest, there could be any number of explanations.
Not to hyjack the thread but, Freon (R-12) has been banned from being produced in USA for well over a decade. R-134a, the propellant called out on the spec sheet, was around before 1995. Both used in refrigeration and as a propellant in spray cans. R-134a is toxic and if too much is inhaled will do damage to your lungs. Probably won't be too much of an issue cleaning records but, I wouldn't use it.

Just my .02.

I am curious what the actual cleaning solvent is as the R-134a (the propellant of the solvent) will dissolve within seconds of leaving the can.

This solvent is as active as Freon and was not invented until 2000. I don't think your talking about the same compound. This stuff is EXCELLENT, and safe.

Here is a link to the PDF spec sheet:

http://www.smartdev.com/PS-Premier.pdf

Also the ad-testimonial at Music Direct

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73874

And last, here is Dupont's page on the active ingredient in Premier, Vertrel CF

http://www2.dupont.com/Vertrel/en_US/
Sanjay,
As you're well aware, the VPI really does nothing as far as cleaning goes, other than offering a platform to place your record, and then a vacuum to revove fluids, and the suspended nasties. But you have jumped over the highest hurdle, buying the RCM, the rest is relatively easy.

The VPI Brush isn't a bad brush, and being Nylon, it will stand up to cleaners containing enzymes, an alcohols.

Brush Pads from Lloyd Walker, AIVS will be of better quality, and will perform better. Brush Pads from Disc Doctor-Mobile Fidelity work very well too, I'm happy with these, but some do note a larger quantity of fluids being used to initially prime them-wet them. Nice thing about these, the pads are replaceable.

Use one dedicated Brush for each step, and label them, to assure you don't mix cleaners with a certain brush.

Yes, if you've read between the lines, you've gathered I am suggesting a multi-step cleaning process, rather than a one step cleaner. A cleaning process such as AIVS 3-step, you first remove any really nasty dust with a CF Brush, place on Platter, begin with the first Enzyme Cleaner, with Platter Spinning apply evenly with brush that the entire surface is covered, but avoid the label area. Now stop the Platter, and let this product sit for 3-5 minutes on average, (don't ever let any product dry on an LP!). If due to dry weather conditions, and you notice evaporation, apply a little more, and this is easy to do with Platter spinning.

After a period of a few minutes, only then you begin scrubbing, cleaning the LP in a back, and forth motion 8-10 times per section, following the grooves, do 1/3rd of the LP, rotate Platter, to do the next 1/3rd, and so on, until the entire LP has been scrubbed. Only then activate vacuum to remove cleaners.

Remove product, and go onto the next step, with its own dedicated brush, and repeat.

Lastly, will be the Pure Water Rinse. Again, use a dedicated Brush, and some even go as far to insure the least amount of cross contamination, they use a entirely different dedicated Arm Wand, (About $60 from VPI) swapping it out, which takes two seconds, for the Pure Water rinse.

Minumum is one good rinse with ultra pure water, and another rinse per side will not hurt anything, and will insure all cleaning products are gone. Do inspect the LP surface after vacuuming. Two revolutions should get the LP virtually dry, more than this can build static, and less will not remove all the rinse with the 16.5 RCM.

Try keeping your Platter clean, when doing the flip side, insure that when done, no fluids have dribbled over onto the cleaned side. I usually use an unscented Kleenex, and hold to to outer bottom edge of LP while platter is rotating with the vacuuming process to insure no dribbles of fluids are left.

Inspect both sides, insure they are totally dry before inserting into Inner Sleeve. Practice makes perfect, but your machine will only work as well as the fluids, and brushes you use, and patient, sensible techniques.
Hope this helps, Mark
WARNING
I do not mean to hijack this thread BUT.

R-12 was mainly used in refrigerators, car A/C and as a propellant. It has a boiling point of -21.7F below zero. R-12 was not the Freon used for cleaning. If you tried to clean records with it, your records and cleaning brush would freeze on contact and cause a lot of damage.

R-11 was mainly used in industrial chillers and for cleaning. R-11 has a boiling point is 77F. When used as a cleaner it was mixed with other chemicals. Most record cleaners back in the day used it as their base.

Both of these Freon's cannot be used for new uses or vented into the air. Back when these were in general use and also if you use any type of Freon based cleaners, NEVER use them around open flame and only in a well ventilated area.

Venting Freon is a $25,000.00 fine.
Per offence.

As to the noise issue. I find that most records do get noisier after a cleaning but they also sound clearer. After I play them a couple of times and let the needle smooth out the grooves everything is fine again. When I clean them again after playing them they do not get noisy again. I usually like my records better after a few plays
The carbon fiber brush is creating static like they always do. Thee other comments have merit as well.