2008 RMAF – – – all things analog.

Dear Chris: +++++ There is plenty of evidence that suggests that it is audible, but nothing that I would consider proof. A scientific measurement would be interesting but would tell us nothing about audibility. Only our ears can tell us that. " +++++

Agree, I know that the subject is very complex maybe more that I can understand.
Anyway what you and Mike argue about give us a better understanding on the stylus drag issue.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Every post here misses the most important and overlooked point in this discussion of speed accuracy. While it's a laudable and important goal, fetishing on speed perfection as the sole goal of turntable design misses that the eccentricity of virtually every record you own will produce greater effective speed error than any speed deviation found in a properly executed design, regardless of whether it's belt, direct drive, idler wheel or whatever. Records and record playback is a terribly imperfect technology. That it still sounds the best despite the imperfections is miraculous. If you want perfection get a CD player.

---Michael Fremer

Grooves, You make an excellent and valid point. So, what do you personally think accounts for the qualitative difference in sound between the best direct-drives and idler-drive tables on the one hand and belt-drive tables on the other? We all or most of us seem to agree that such a difference exists, except maybe as regards the very best belt-drive tables (not necessarily the most expensive). Couldn't it be that we are hearing an additive effect of speed instability due to the turntable on top of speed instability due to eccentrically cut records (i.e., nearly all of them)? What might be happening is that the brain learns to accept the sound from a given LP, good or bad, as a baseline for comparison of turntable performance. Most of us use LPs with which we are very familiar in the turntable comparison process.

I'm not sure anyone has said speed perfection is the sole goal. Obviously, taking that approach would lead to problems elsewhere, most of which would mask any benefit of perfect speed.

CD = perfection? That's a whole different topic itself, but I get your intent.

We have this tiny diamond, at times wiggly back and forth and up and down at some pretty high frequencies. Assuming that the cartridge is good enough to not skip even in the slightest, that has to have some effect on something, IMO. Those of us who use the mylar belts have heard remarkable improvements with different versions of the mylar streamers and, most notably, with Paul's latest trick of etching away the metal to expose the textured side of the mylar. Something is going on.

CD = Perfection... except for jitter. Timing errors seem to be an achillies heel for both analog an digital.