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Tinny sound accompanying cello on recordings ?

I'm somewhat baffled by an on and off tinny sound I've heard on several recordings of Dvorak's Cello Concerto. Up until a few years ago, I either didn't hear it or didn't notice it. The more revealing the sound system, the more obvious is this phenomenon. At first, I thought something was wrong with my speaker drivers, but when I listened through other transducers, I noticed the sound was still there. I proceeded to isolate the rest of my equipment, but the rather unwelcome "guest" remained. It didn't matter whether I used the same recordings with a cd player or a phono front end, things didn't vary. I listened to identical passages of the Dvorak Concerto with Fourier/Szell and Harrell/Levine. I haven't yet bothered to check other cello recordings. This tinny/sizzling sound is a shadow-like resonance hovering around the cello's notes as they are being played, asserting its presence more frequently, it seems, from the mid to upper midrange. I assume some of you classical fans have heard this. Can anyone explain exactly what's going on here ? By the way, I hear it also (though less obviously because of the much smaller sized sound system) when watching and listening to the same piece performed by Rostropovich on You Tube with my computer and its little Altec speakers. Listen in particular to the first movement from the time the cello enters, and onward.
opus88
opus88 OP
530 posts
 
Thanks Chashmal, your comments are reassuring. It's been a long time since I've heard a solo cello in a live concert. That was when I had the great pleasure of seeing Janos Starker. We have a very fine orchestra here in Asheville, NC, and I'm aware of the one in Brevard, which isn't far away. Last week, I attended a wonderful performance of the Asheville Symphony featuring the Bruch Violin Concerto and the Brahms Fourth. I will make it a point to attend the next concert I can find with a cellist performing.
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 
Opus, remember that those recordings have been miked from a vantage point much closer to the performer than what would be considered socially acceptable for a concert goer. At that distance the mike will pick up a wealth of very low level ringing overtones that would be lost over longer distances. It is also possible that if your system is very revealing, your ears may be producing some intermodulation. . . this may happen on chorded passages, particularly in higher position and in thumb position. If this were intermodulation, you would have the illusion of the ringing or tinny sound to originate from the middle of your head rather than from the speakers. In my experience the phenomenon is more common on the violin. . . e.g. Lara St. John playing Bach partitas and Sonatas on a Stradivari violin. Lastly, if I remember correctly, the intermodulation output frequencies are equal to the sum and the difference of the input frequencies. . . as such they are enharmonic and can sound quite eery. . . but do not fault your electronics. . . 'tis all in our heads, so to say. G.
chashmal
605 posts
 
Guidocorona makes a good point about miking, which is one thing I love about recordings: the intimacy. Impossible to get that in a large hall all the way back.

Listen to the way Jordi Savall's solo gamba is miked. Really close, and tons of exactly what you described. I think you will come to love it as part of the richness of the instrument once the weirdness plays out for you.

By the way, Starker is one of my all time favorites for Bach solo cello. Casals maybe beats him out though:).
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
You can tune the cello sound with the bow weight - a heavy bow will sound duller and more resonant and a lighter bow will sound thinner and more "reedy". Pretty much every instrument is tweaked - drum sets have pillows and scotch tapes over them - it is normal - for goodness sake don't sell your audio gear because something sounds too strident - it is likely to have been INTENDED to sound that way.

This is where a system equipment selection based on a nice full warm sound will make you miss half the expression in music - yes it is true - music is SUPPOSED to sound strained/strident/loud/aggresive/painfull/shocking sometimes - music expresses all emotions - not just "beauty" and "warmth". Russian composers often have their music played with a strident sound to the strings - this is intentional!

Those who chase only "beautiful sound" - you know the female vocalist or the "Cowboy Junkies" type stuff are missing the other side of music ....loud bombastic and aggressive shock and awe music...there are all kinds and a properly selected system will play it all...
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 
On the same cello, there are infinite combinations of materials and playing techniques that will modulate the sound to bewildering variants. . . string brand and model, bridge design and material, tailpiece design and material, end pin material, bow design and construction (you can spend $20K on bow alone)(, bow hair, rosin; position and angle of attack of bow on strings, bowing speed, wrist pressure/elasticity if any, hand grip infinite variants on left hand techniques. Some combination yield a rich sound, other emphasize harmonics, other just lose the fundamental, other modulate the amplitude (vibrato), others are plain horrific.
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