2. analog
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No deep bass or highs: VTF or VTA issue?

Background:

I've been using JM Lab Micro Utopia monitors and recently added a sub (via Bryston outboard crossover). Used my music server to dial in the sub (for convenience) and after dialing it in I noticed that my analog rig is not sounding anywhere as good as my digital.

I tried comparing a few LPs to their digital counterparts and in comparison the LPs sounded dark and sluggish.

Relevant equipment:

Analog:
- Dynavector XV-1s
- Scoutmaster / JMW 9 Signature / SDS / Super platter etc
- Aesthetix Rhea Signature with NOS tubes

Digital:
Music server -> Benchmark DAC

I used a Mint tractor to align the cartridge, and the VTF on the XV-1s is around 2.0g. I had never done anything about VTA, so I tried raising it. It got somewhat brighter, but now in comparison it lacks deep bass AND the highs of the digital version. Switching back and forth it's like the vinyl is just midrange (that's an exaggeration to illustrate my point).

I also have a Manley Steelhead phono stage; I should probably swap that with the Rhea to make sure the phono stage isn't the culprit but my gut tells me that it's the setup.

Any advice on what adjustments to try would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
madfloyd
madfloyd OP
411 posts
 
Thanks again for the replies. I lowered the VTF to 1.75 and it's tracking fine. I may try it even lower for the education (especially now with the explanation you provided). Funny, it sounded real good (playing Aja again) but then I made the mistake of listening to the digital version again and it still sounded much airier.

I took a break for a while, but now I'm going to play around some more...
madfloyd OP
411 posts
 
Just learned something else: when I read that VTF and VTA were interactive, I thought that meant that an adjustment to one may mean that a different value is required on the other. I didn't realize that adjusting the VTA would literally change VTF! I'm now tracking at 1.5 (well below the 1.8 spec) and still have bass.... should I keep going?

I tried a couple dimes on my gauge and I'm getting 2.300g.
madfloyd OP
411 posts
 
OK, so now I've raised the VTA much higher (maybe even as high as it goes). I can clearly see the top of the cartridge is on an angle and doing this resulted in a VTF of 1.062g.

No mistracking as far as I can tell. Does this sound as whacked as I think it does?

Btw, in measuring the dimes again, I did get 2.262.
dan_ed
2,451 posts
 
After playing Aja again, it's been a while, I can understand why you may think it sounds dark. That album sounds like that to me all the way through. But I can confirm what Dre posted about the cymbals in the beginning of Deacon Blues. Plenty of decay after a whack and the next whack comes before the decay ends. It is continuous but the individual cymbal whacks are very discernable. I don't have CD copy of Aja so I can't compare. I suggest double checking that you are comparing the same mastered versions of that album. Even then the digital version can sound different than the LP.

I've not heard of anyone tracking an XV-1s much below about 1.9, but Doug is right. Not only are cartridges different but so are arms, etc.
dgad
782 posts
 
I would check resonant frequency of the arm. A high resonant frequency would make the highs less open & muddy the bass. One other note, is that the Subwoofer can affect the isolation of the turntable and then create resonances that would again muddy the bass and reduce the extension & clarity of the highs. When you integrate full range bass into any system, you now test the limits of all your equipment. This is where it really gets challenging and can be expensive.

On a note re: VTF & VTA. As I change VTA I do always recheck VTF (depending on the arm) and then reset the VTF to the previous setting to make sure I am listening the effects of the VTA change and not the interelated VTF change. I hope this is clear. All the best. I wasn't a fan of the XV-1s but it did have good bass and sweet highs.
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