Looking for guidance with older VPI HW-19 tables

If you had a choice to mount a Hadcock GH228 on a VPI HW-19 MKIV with heavy TNT platter OR a Scheu Eurolab Premier, which would you choose? The Scheu is a little more expensive than the MKIV.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Tough to say? The VPI HW-19 Series (although I own one) is sort of a dated design, being introduced well over 25 years ago. This doesn't mean its a bad Table, but hard to tell you what Table you should be using-buying to fit this Arm to? Much depends upon the amount of money you wish to spend?

One could also simply buy a VPI HW-19 Jr, the least expensive of them all, and re-construct the Table with a new custom Plinth, which could be made of various substances, MDF, Corian, Acrylic, and even Aluminum if one chose to. This then means labor, or labor costs. Any-All Parts used on the Jr can be sold seperately on this forum to offset any incurred costs. Parts such as Platter, Plinth, Tonearm, Dustcover, etc, etc.

The question is, is it worth it for you to go this far, taking a simpler Table, and doing all this to it?

Since the HW-19 is very modular by design, one can upgrade to a variety of VPI Platters, bought used, or new, including the newest $1200 MSRP 25lb Super Platter, the Stand Alone Motor Assembly (SAMA) can still be gotten, the VPI SDS Speed Controller works will all VPI Tables as far as I know. Some physical issues will be encountered going to thicker-heavier Platters, such as attaining proper Arm-VTA Height, and Dustcover clearance issues with Clamping systems. The Taller HW-19 Clear Acrylic Dusctovers are still available through VPI.

This was how my HW-19 started life, as a Jr model being upgraded over a 2-year period, with Better Cone Feet, MK-IV Platter, new Acrylic Plinth, another Tonearm, Custom machined Parts, such as Platter Clamp. I only went this route, because it was what I had on hand, and seemed to be the most cost effective, and the easiest for me to do.

No, the HW-19 is not the lastest, and greatest, won't win any beauty pageants, and rank comparably to a Aries 3, HR-X, and of course doesn't cost what these Tables do, but it is a good design, that can sound very good, dependent upon components (Arms-Platters-etc) used in the build up-modification.

There's countless ways one can go, one can also buy a complete table, with a good, comparable, or even better Arm than the Hadcock, and sell the Hadcock to offset costs? Tonearms are somthing that sell very well here, so that can be another option? Of course, how much is willing to spend will be a very important consideration? Again, hope this helps you. Mark

The HW19, while an aesthetically "dated" design, is performance-wise, not a dated design at all. The Jr.'s main liability was it's inferior bearing/platter assembly. The original acrylic/lead/cork platter (not the Jr.) of the true HW19 is an excellent platter. Much superior to the Jr.'s lighter frosted acrylic platter. The bearing is also much better than the Jr.'s. While reconstructing the Jr. with a better plinth will most definitely improve the table, the improvement will not be nearly as sinificant as upgrading the original Jr. platter on the original Jr. plinth. The very best possible plinth material will do nothing to improve the Jr.'s problem with pitch instability, and PRAT as compared to the HW19 MK1,2,3,4. This problem had everything to do with the inferior platter/bearing. The upgrade to heavier TNT platter, combined with steel/acrylic plinth of the MK4 take the table to a level which makes it competive with many much higher priced tables. Not to mention additional possible improvements by way of SAMA, flywheel, SDS etc.

I started with a HW19 MK2 then upgraded the platter (very good in it's own right) to the heavier original TNT platter/bearing: tremendous improvement in solidity, pitch stability, PRAT.

Then to a full blown MK4 (acrylic plate) with the same platter/bearing and SAMA: nice improvement. Slightly faster, yet richer sound. But relatively subtle, and not nearly as great as the platter upgrade to the MK2.

Then I added a SDS: greatest improvement of all. Much better sense of control, improved soundstage.

Then to a hybrid TNT6. TNT6 plinth, Ginko ball suspension towers, TNT5 acrylic/steel platter, SAMA, single flywheel, SDS. More refined sound still. Quieter, improved soundstaging, slightly better bass extension.

The moral of the story (to me, based on my experience)is that if you accept that the VPI TNT is a contender for being one of the better tables around, a HW19 MK4 with SAMA, and ideally with SDS, when well situated and suspended, is not nearly as far behind as one would think given the price difference. BTW, tonearm was always the same ET2, and a variety of cartridges.

Mark and Frogman, thank you for the detailed info! I really appreciate your replies.

How does the Scout compare to the MKIV? Is the JMW-9 arm equal to, better than, or inferior to the Hadcock GH228? Buying a table that's ready to go out of the box would be soooo much easier than anything else I've considered. Tweaking an HW-19, and mounting the Hadcock, will be time consuming. That doesn't rule it out, but it's a factor. If I'm not mistaken, an MKIV with TNT heavy plater, SAMA and no arm will cost in the neighborhood of $1000. A Scout with JMW-9 can be found for about the same price. It makes me wonder why I'd want the fuss of a project.

All bias aside, I like the way the HW19 looks. The platter on the MKIV is a better platter than on the Scout, for better rotational inertia. The 19 accomodates more tonearms than the Scout (try putting a linear tracker on a Scout), and allows you the flexibility of experimenting with different types of suspensions. Reread Sdcampbell's and note that his comparison was to the more expensive Scout Master. By many accounts the 19 gives a fuller, warmer, more musically involving sound (this part obviously a subjective thing), than the leaner sounding Scout.

Good luck with your decision.