Vintage Denon Direct Drive Turntable

Dear Threehugga: +++++ " and make me wish I had discovered direct drive years ago before I wasted all that time & money on suspended belt driven decks. " +++++

one way or the other your experiences on BD designs were a learning ones.

Now, IMHO, as good as are the top DD TTs there are some very good examples on BD ones. Today and for what are my experiences on the TT subject I'm not totally convince that the DD systems ( If I recall I was/am one of the first persons in this forum that " supports " the DD systems. ) out there are better than the BD out there.

I think that both drive systems are and have similarities more than differences.

Both, are " roads " that can take " us " to the same performance target when everything the same ( I'm talking here on that very top-end TTs on both drive designs ).

A very " healthy " stage for many of us could be to own both drive systems.

I read on other threads that some Agoners change its very top end BD TTs in favor of a DD ones, IMHO this was a mistake and sooner or latter they will take in count that the BD ones are not lower performers than the DD ones ( everything the same ).

Unfortunately ( for them ) those people that already made the change IMHO never had the opportunity to heard both drive systems in exactly the same conditions where the only difference was the TT and nothing else.

I'm fortunate to have several TTs ( both drive systems ), tonearms, cartridges and in some cases I own two samples on each item ( tonearm/cartridge ).
This fact give me the opportunity to test and work on the subject ( a lot of fun ) and that's why ( in my system, everything the same ) I'm not convince on one drive system over the other one.

We have to remember that nothing is perfect and that always are trade-offs, certainly both drive TT systems have its own trade-offs.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

The real subject is that IMHO we can't take the TT drive system alone for to know which drive system is better, the subject is more complex than that and have an extremly close relationship with the tonearm/cartridge ( between other things ) behavior.

Raul, I would like you to listen to a state-of-the-art restored idler tt, e.g., a Garrard 301/401 or a Lenco L75 in a proper plinth, using one of your own tonearms and cartridges. Your opinion of how these tts compare to BDs and DDs in your experience would interest me. But it's very important to be sure the idler is properly restored and in a proper plinth before any judgment.

Dear Lewm: I already heard some very good 301-401 samples ( not on my system ) " properly restored " and in a custom made plinth.

I can't say when I will have the opportunity to listen at home.

+++++ " in a proper plinth before any judgment. " +++++

IMHO till today ( not only on Garrad/Lenco ) no one ( including Monaco and DIYs. ) TT designer has the real/truer/scientist/proven ( vintage or modern ones ) answer of which is the " proper plinth " ( between other crucial things ) to each TT drive system.

IMHO almost all judgment on " this plinth is better than that " and judgment like this are only that " a simple opinion " but nothing that can tell us that that is the " proper plinth ".

If you, me or some one else analise how much in deep/scientist/proven research/results were made on TT designs ( any ) in the last 30 years we can find that the whole " production " is very poor for say the least and IMHO that's why almost any vintage/today TT design needs a lot of customer tweaks to perform in a better way.

If not, please tell me 3-4 different TTs ( at any price ) that does not needs any single tweak to perform at it best.

All this subject can/could tell me that the near " perfect " TT coming in a comercial way ( any drive design, it does not matters. ) is very far from today ( that's why you, me and many other person's efforts are trying with self alternatives: SP-10, DP-80, Garrad, Lenco and the like ), the very good news is that the best about is forth-coming, when? I can't say it.

I already say it on other threads: the advance on TT, cartridge and tonearm over the last 30 years is very tiny-small ( for say the least ) and I can't see ( yet ) that person/manufacturer/designer that want/can take the " flag " and makes the difference real differences about, I hope sooner or latter some one (s ) do it, in the mid-time we can go on trying to " invent " the best plinth or the best TT platform/footers or anything else: good fun btw!.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I agree with most of what you say. How did you or do you rank the best idler tt you've heard vs the best DD, and what do you think are the qualitative differences? In any case, I am having a lot of fun with vintage TTs these days. That in itself is ample justification for pursuing their perfection.

Dear Lewm: The last time ( and the best ) I heard a Garrad 301/401 was at Louis place along the Triplanar/XV-1, as you can see a first rate analog rig and the speaker/electronics/room just " according " with.

How do you think that system " sounds "?, yes you are right: it sounds really good. Well, I heard ( other than in my system ) DD TT that performs really good ( at least same level. ) in different really good audio systems and I never heard a Garrad on my system. You ask " how do you rank....", well I can't.
In almost all those different ( top ones and with different cartridges and phono stages. ) systems either DD/BD/Idler performs very well.
Right now in my system I can't say for sure if I prefer DD over BD: overall I can't see an absolute winner yet!, a hard and complex " call " for say the least. It is ( at least for me ) very dificult to " aisle " the TT performance it self to rank a drive system per-se.

Today I'm a firm advocate ( if we can ) to have and enjoy all those TT drive systems.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.