Enough detail or too much?

Dear Tzh2ly: Too much?, IMHO that depends what we are hearing in live events and what we are hearing in our systems.

If we attend to hear jazz/blues in a small night-club where we are seat(ed) close to the jazz/blues group we can hear how detailed/transparent is the music a lot more detailed than in any home system, when we hear the cymbals in that group the detail, speed, decay time, distortions, etc, etc can't even in any home audio system. We are near the source in this case and our perception is different than in other music live events where we are not so near the source.

By the contrary if we are hearing classical music in a big hall we are hearing at least at around 15-20m. from the source ( way back ) when the micros are at only 3m, not only that but in this kind of hall the seats and the people that are surrounded to our seat " absorb/reflect " the orchresta sound and the hall own reverberant time and absortion/difusion/reflection characteristics make that things comes totally different from what we can hear at home, normally we hear this kind of live events a little in the " dark " side against our audio systems.

Now and from my several experiences through my audio life and through the many audio systems that I already heard there are other factors that alter what we are hearing at home in our audio systems ( on the subject of: too much?. ) and one of those factors is " distortion "( any: IMD, THD, noise, Colorations, etc, etc.. ) that we are hearing at more high level that we can imagine.

For different reasons ( one of that is our own hearing loss, another could be that we are not too experienced in the different instruments real sound. ) we like that " transparency/brigth/spark " ( I mean: too much, not natural one. ) and almost always that " over-life "/spark/brightness it is nothing but high DISTORTIONS in the audio systems, distortions that are not on the recording but that were generated through the audio systems, is it familiar to any one of you/us the next sentences?
: " this cable makes a difference in my system: is more detailed on high frequencies. ", " Hey this tonearm is really better specially on high frequencies, now I have the " spark " that I have not before ", " Wow this amplifier really shine, specially at the top frequency range ", " Hey with this change of cable/capacitor/tonearm/etc I heard like I win 1-2db ( SPL ) in the system response ", " I don't like this change ( cable or whatever. ) the sound " sounds " lower and with out " Life ", etc, etc.

Normally these kind of " reactions " are telling us about changes in distortions ( usually higher ) that we perceive in better/easy way in the top frequency range and like a change in the SPL.

All those sentences but the last one are speaking of adding distortions to our system making that we will be faraway from what is in the recording, through the time that " beautiful " transparency/spark will tell that something is wrong and we take the endless attitude to following to change some audio links in the audio chain.

The last sentence normally tell me that I lower the distortions ( somewhere ) and if we are patience ( we need in deep know-how ) through the time we will take in count that all the " sound " is there ( better than before ) but now is more neutral ( that's why we hear a little " life-less ", lower SPL and even in the " dark " side. ) and truer to the recording. Of course that always could be that the recording is overbright and distorted.

When we can discern on " distortions " and neutrality then we are near the top of the overall audio systems learning curve and will enjoy better than ever the music reproduction in our home systems and grow-up in the right direction.

How can we discern in a precise way?, how can we tell when is distortion and when is neutral? how can we know when that " too much " is really a true improvement and not distortion? hard to say because this judgement is know-how that each one of us already achieve through our audio life and that each one of us can improve if we have the right attitude to do it: a LEARNING one.

There are some other factors that contribute on the subject but that could be for other thread.

Btw, I'm not saying that all what I posted here is the " bible ": NO, it is only a part of my learning curve that I share with you.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I have some thoughts in reference to scale. I have had luck getting proper scale, including orchestras. Believe it or not, it can be achieved in near field as well as normal set up. Speakers must be panned properly. You must have the speakers far enough apart. If you have space restraints, then you must move closer to the speakers. In my experience you should try to get your stage as wide as possible in order to produce life like reproduction. If your speakers are too close together everything gets congested. Here is a quick way to get close. Sit in your listening chair and put your arms straight out with all fingers straight as well. Form a straight line with the tip of your fingers to your shoulder, orientate your hands so your fingers are vertical up and down as if your getting ready to clap like a seal. Next, move your arms until those straight lines are pointing right at your speakers. If you can see the insides of your fingers, do one or both of two things. Move your speakers closer to you, or move your listening position closer to the speakers. I have more believable results moving my speakers closer to me as far from the rear wall as possible. This allows for more depth perception. If your image falls apart start toeing the speakers towards you until the center image is solid again and stop. The rest is up to your speakers and your electronics. Some speakers and electronics can make images two big or to small. Now of course some speakers may not work this way. Some need rear wall enforcement or what ever. But I have had great success this way. I have had speakers 15 ft from a rear wall and 3 to 4 feet in front of me but panned properly as I suggested. It creates infinite depth and width. The whole venue will conjure and breath. I can not count how many times I have seen or listened to a system where the speakers are too close together and the representation is just ridiculous. People tend to sit too far away from there speakers and it allows for many other forces to act on the stereo. The room starts getting in the way. I really like near field. But my ref speaker at the moment is AG Duo's and they must be at least 8 ft away to integrate properly, the drivers are far apart. I get them as close as I can and wide. Soundstage is immense. Full scale orchestra is believable. Now I am really blabbering and many may think I am smoking something...LOL!

Rudolf, I like your process and follow something very much similar when setting up my speaks. My only wish is that my rooms were a tad larger because the OHM speaker's sound stage and imaging tends to fill the room from wall to wall and then some even, and mostly in front of your listening position as it should be.

the experience of listening to prerecorded music and the experience of a live concert are just two different things. live theatre/film....sporting event/game on tv.....sex/cinemax.....germany/frankenmuth.....as so it goes........

the room is the most important part of a stereo. Its just to hard to make a breath taking believable presentation in a inadequate room. I see all these high dollar stereos in a compromised room. I just dont understand, its a waste of money. I have walked into beautiful homes and the wife has pushed the poor chap in to a hole the size of a closet, in the basement. We just have to stand up for ourselves and are well being. I do not let Nichole call the shots when it comes to where my audio will be placed. At the moment, I am looking for a new home. The house must be able to support my audio. I have gone back and forth about how I like it intergrated. I always thought I would love a dedicated room downstairs away from everything. I finally did that and hate it. I feel like I am in a cave. I miss my music in my life, while I cook, relax, read. I need it on the first floor in my living space. I have entertained the thought of two systems but I think it would be too much. I have a hard time keeping up with one.