Seeking turntable upgrade advice

What gives you impression I have distorted harmonics in my system, Doug? You haven't heard it... I'm confused.

Hi Madfloyd,

If I were to make a decision on the Doshi based on limited exposure to it, I too would find that it is not to my taste, or more correctly, that I heard shortcomings in the systems where I had the opportunity to audition it. My respect for the Doshi is by inference - from people whose opinions I trust - people with whom I've shared observations and listening tastes in the past. In this sense, it should be on everyone's short list.

There are elements to fine components which are obvious once you learn what to listen for. For example, phono stages like the Doshi, the Essential, the Atma-Sphere MP-1, and the Einstein (to name a few), have a remarkable immunity to input overload. Raul has mentioned this in various threads on this forum. Many times, what sounds like cartridge mistracking or distortion is in fact a phono stage input section whose slew rate is too slow - one which can't gracefully respond to transients, and rings (resonates) in response to them.

Of course, there are numerous dimensions to a sonic evaluation. I point the above one out because it's one that you can analyze in any system context. Tonality on the other hand is difficult to determine unless you are familiar with the system context.

My main point relates to a system building approach - to encourage you to pick the low hanging fruit and work from there. From this perspective, the Doshi would serve you well - in spite of the fact that you currently don't find it to your liking (and might never, for that matter). From the dialog in this thread, it appears as if both ends of your system are candidates for change front end, and apm/speaker.

Now, in the end, you still might not like the Doshi, but I think it will (paradoxically) help you make better decisions about the rest of your system. I still think that you are most likely shooting the messenger. Have you considered sending it back to Nick for an inspection?

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

What gives you impression I have distorted harmonics in my system, Doug? You haven't heard it... I'm confused.

In your own words (unless there's another Ian who has a VPI/XV-1S and just bought and sold an Alaap)...

From your email to me dated 3/27:
"I have not gotten rid of the 'ringing' in my TT, but I did call VPI and ask their opinion, expecting them to tell me I needed to upgrade my arm, but they insisted that my JMW 9 Sig was just fine and that the problem was VTF. They had me increase it to 2.5g (Dynavector XV-1s). It was a significant improvement. The ringing is still there, but much fainter."

As we heard with your TT/arm/cart in my system, your rig actually produces clean harmonics. The "ringing" comes from other components which can't handle those harmonics.

From your email to me dated 3/27:
"If I listen over 80db I get ear fatigue rather quickly; I think the extra harmonics are a little harsh sounding. I get tons of bloom and my impressions are that it's not as clean and imaging is not as good (it's as if the bloom causes images to overlap)."

No other Alaap owner has ever complained of that. Sounds like ringing in the system/room to me.

From your email to me dated 4/1 (regarding your Doshi):
"Distortion. While I absolutely adore the bloom and huge soundstage, I can't listen to this louder than 70 db without ear fatigue. If I play something at 80 db it drives people out of the room (it sounds like it's over 100db). It's lovely with jazz and folk at lower volumes, but it adds so much in the way of harmonics that anything recorded with harmonics gets noisy very fast."

Likewise.

OK, I see where you're coming from now. The only area where you're confused is:

"As we heard with your TT/arm/cart in my system, your rig actually produces clean harmonics. The "ringing" comes from other components which can't handle those harmonics."

The ringing was as clear in your system as it was in mine. Zero difference. Perhaps I'm using the wrong term - maybe I should use 'resonance'. Do you recall listening to Steely Dan and hearing the snare drum produce a resonating sound that sustained during silences on my TT but not yours? I could tap my TT base and the same (pitch) sound would occur. Some suggested adjusting the damping fluid, but others suggested that the tonearm was holding me back. In any case, it was clearly independant of room and other equipment.

In any case, I’m pretty happy with my harmonically challenged system. Having changed every component in the past 3 months (including cabling, power conditioning) it’s resolving to the point that I can finally hear differences in cables and electronics and am enjoying the life sized soundstage and detailed imaging. Recently I’ve had the pleasure of auditioning some of the best preamps available and discovering each has its own set of strengths and weaknesses and how important synergy is. Too fun, not to mention educational.

It will certainly be enlightening to find that when I change to a superior tonearm, instead of my analog source sounding as good or better than my digital, I’ll suddenly want to sell all my LPs. Oh well, live and learn. 

I'd forgotten (or maybe didn't notice) that difference between the Steely Dan playbacks. Proof again that it helps to do these auditions with familiar LP's. If we'd played one of our records it might have jumped out at me.

Given that, I understand your TT/arm upgrade plans. Galibier and Raven are both excellent choices and, as Sonofjim said, probably better value for money than SME. Sonically I don't think there's much difference between Dan's Gavia and my 320. A 265 is a step down however (we owned one before the 320). The bigger tables do provide stronger dynamics and a blacker background. If you have the cash...