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Mounting hole-to-stylus variation / tolerance

Hi all,
I know this particular point has been touched on, raised, in some of the threads dealing with tone-arm-alignment in particular.
I truly think it deservers a dedicated thread since it has a more or less profound influence on various arm designs and their alignment.
It also has a profound influence in how accurate and beneficial any after market alignment tool will work for you!

We have had this far, feed back from Jonathan Carr, i.e. the variations and tolerances with regard to his product (Lyra).
We also had some rather powerful insights by Frank ..., who designs and makes arms i.e. the variations of various products he took note of.

Jonathan quoted, that his current products have a +/- 0.3mm tolerance from the 'standard' IEC...? of 3/8" or 9.52mm.

The findings of some contributors are different, possibly due to simple variations much greater than 0.3mm (Lyra's tolerance) or possibly due to subsequent movement of the 'motor' relative to the body, caused by rough handling, re-tipping, etc.

It is of most importance to get more feedback on this, due to the dependence of a close match to 9.52mm, on arms such as ALL of SME, to name but one. These rely on this to be fairly accurately aligned. If not, some pretty unacceptable misalignment follows as a result, if the stock alignment method is used.

Lastly, HOW can a 'normal' end-user measure this distance with some degree of accuracy?
I have no problem using a vernier (calliper) and measure a +/- 0.05mm variation.
I can not see that this tool will be of use in this case. Optical measurement (like tool-shops use) will be best I should think --- but who, I ask, has this at hand?

Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Oh my,
if a s2mh is a mute issue to you, so why do you bother at all?!
Isn't it YOU that is now promoting a particular arm concept, which then makes this enquiry NONSENSICAL?

Sounds like some ego trip to me. Closed case for you, fine. I was just trying to get you to understand that it is NOT a mute issue - yet.
There are OTHER 'fixed' arms made in this world then SME e.g. Linn and Origin Live I'm told.
You make the issue mute, I say not so, unless you come up with something more convincing than 'mute issue' because it's not your case... or you just want to right?
Please kindly consider this at least.
Thank you,
Axel
dan_ed
2,451 posts
 
Ok, bye.
dertonarm
1,042 posts
 
Dear Berlinta, rest assured - I got from the 3 samples what was possible. I just wasn't impressed. That was not a problem of the respective set-up nor of my abilities. As for the sientific dispute and my non-reaction to your mathematical and physical "facts" - I reacted and answered.
It just wasn't posted.
The dispute about the TT drive mechanism between the "gang" and me some weeks back gave a good example of my phrase about Galileo. If your and the comments of your gang-members regarding drirect drive vs. belt drive were indeed serious - than I am definitely Galileos legal successor.

But thanks for your extensive viae vitae anyway.
johnbrown
195 posts
 
I've got to agree with Dan-ed. I've been trying to follow Axel's threads hoping to learn something new, but they seem to dissolve into nothing more than idle navel gazing. My god, the math for cart alignment has been available for decades-just choose your poison, and set up your arm and cart however it needs to be done! When you *do* arrive at a new, never-before-used alignment procedure, that you've used extensively and decided you prefer, please open another thread with your info. Otherwise, these pseudo-intellectual meanderings are just a waste of time-it's little wonder they attract few of the regulars.

saying that, I wish you luck, and vaya con dios
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hi Johnbrown,

I truly do not intend this to be some 'navel gazing' :-)

I initiated this thread after there was quite some discrepant information coming about in some of the other related threads on set-up and arm geometry.

It was Frank that made me start (of sorts) when he mentioned some pretty widely spread measurements of a variety of carts. I have no problem with the notion that with a 'variable' head-shell type of arm this to be a mute issue. Not EVERY one might agree, but I certainly do.

If an inquiry into that subject comes to "pseudo-intellectual meanderings" I not so sure.

Look, if carts vary from ~ 7mm - >10mm s2mh it may be good to know. Particularly if as a result the off-set ability of ones arm is past it's limit. Let me hasten to tell you, it just so happens to my case...

I don't know if that makes it more acceptable for you understanding the underlying motivation? Having just spend $5000 on an otherwise good tonearm doesn't make me go out and by yet another one just because I'm a bit lost with these cart variations, that happen do result in increased IGD.

So let see if this will make it a bit easier for to accept our 'meandering navel gazing' :-)

Axel
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