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Influence of stylus shapes on distortion

Hi,
since we do all things analogue, I think stylus-shape, round, eliptical, fine-line, etc. is yet another salient subject.
At least according to some experts it has quite some influence on play-back distortion --- as well as related criticality of 'the perfect' alignment set-up.

I'm sure Raul with his experience of MMs from some earlier vintage might be of help to gain some insight on this subject.

Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Raul,
please give me the answer from your " music lover " point of experience about using (always well set-up) a Windfeld with 'Nude Ortofon Replicant 100' stylus (fine-line, yes?); 16CD compliance, or a SPU Royal with the same stylus but 8CU compliance on the same SME V arm.
Cart weight is 13g in the former, 12.8g in the latter. VTF 2.6g and SPU 3.0g

What is your take?
Axel
rauliruegas
13,129 posts
 
Dear Axel: Here I give you some info about:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1235522919&openflup&54&4#54

was not an in deep sessions and maybe at my place the precise/exactly tonearm/cartridge set-up was not right on target but anyways give us a " clear idea about.

I try " hard " with the Ortofon MC 7500 ( same stylus shape that the Windfeld and very close cartridge characteristics.) and is a very sensitive to VTA/SRA changes, it likes to run almost flat/parallel to the record for you can achieve its top quality performance.
It runs good on the SME IV but works better in other of my tonearms. Now, we can take in count those differences on cartridge quality performance only if we have on hand other tonearms to make a comparison, its the only way to understand its true performance.

Sometimes I or some one else say " that tonearm is not a good match with that cartridge " or at the inverse and this kind of stateent not necessary means that that cartridge will perform bad NO.

Usualy a top cartridge performs good in almost any " decent " tonearm and for many of us that " performs good " is enough to enjoy it.
In the other side there are other people that are looking not only for a good cartridge performance but for its best on that cartridge and here is where our tonearm " hunting " begin trying to find the " magic " match.

Btw, I don't have any experience with the Royal. Which yours?

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hi all,
I think on getting back to the subject.
So Frank (forum alias, Berlinta), has brought up a VERY good point.
HOW, do different stylus shapes INFLUENCE the HARMONICS of the INEVITABLE distortion we have (at least with arms describing an arc, 9", 10", 12", etc.)?

We will have distortion, of course minimised as best, and according to our preference of alignment, if applicable, i.e. not SME stock-alignment.
Now, we know (do we?) that odd-order harmonics are great for Rock&Roll - kick-a.se, air-guitar, etc. and even-order harmonics more on the smoother side of it all (at least as perceived) -- think of a lot older tube-gear.

Listening to classics, instruments etc. etc. might just be better with a more even-order distortion ---- our ear can handle loads more before it becomes too much.

So theorising in this way, will give us a small trade-off in detail, but a truly interesting option. It might get us more discerning about WHAT stylus shape(s) to pick.
Of course there is, as always, more to it:
Compliance, cart weight, cantilever material, etc.
But the stylus shape is a good point to start.

Next I might also want to try and look into cantilever materials, alu, hard-alu, boron, ruby, sapphire?, etc.

Since we are amplifying EVERYTHING, the least bit of a materials specific resonance, ALL can be perceived in a reasonably resolving audio chain.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Axel
larryi
4,297 posts
 
It might be just the case that, in more recent times, I've become more picky with setup. However, I do have the impression that cartridges with fine line profiles are extremely sensitive to VTA change. I have seen the charts that show that even fairly large changes in VTA should have only small impact on sound, but, my listening experience is that that is NOT the case. I can easily hear the difference when I move the tonearm up or down less than .5mm with my Lyra Titan cartridge.

Since I have no intention to adjust VTA for different records and record thicknesses, I know that the VTA I am listening at for any particular record is not optimal. This is something I just accept. But, I have been tempted to look into 12" arms, in part because VTA changes less with changes in record thickness. To me, this is at least as important as lower tangential error.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hi Larryi,
well said, and exactly my very own experience also.
A 0.3mm change in VTA makes a difference (as I mentioned in a reated thread) --- but should that be so critical?!
It makes a case for non-optimal VTA for many another record, depending on thickness.

I have a suspicion that neither elliptical nor round styli will behave that way, plus the possibility of a more 'pleasant' distortion behaviour as eluded to above. Have we pushed the envelope too far in search of ultimate resolution?
What would JC have to say to this heretical thought?

Best regards,
Axel
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