Dynavector DV 20X-L -- which MM will better it?

Dear Axel: ++++++ " Now that Orpheus is of course mega buck territory, but I'm afraid to say that no MM can ever get to that sort of level. " +++++

in the MM territory the $$$$ is almost un-important. IMHO your statement had almost no credibility and worry me due to some reasons:

first you never heard a top MM ( like the top MC Orpheus. ) in your today system bis a bis against any top LOMC.

second, not only you never heard a top MM but even if you have it ( the cartridge ) you can't make the right set-up, specially on load impedance/capacitance.

third, it seems to me that you like a higher distortion levels that many other people because even that your phono stage can handle directly a LOMC you use an additional SUT/cables/connectors ( no I don't want to open any single discussion on SUTs. ) that " improve " higher distortions, the MM alternative run through less stages/filters that your Orpheus ( btw, I owned the Transi W and heard several times the Orpheus in different system and in my system too. ) and give you a little less distortions that what you and your ears are accustom to.
The 326S like the ML 32 are a little on the " dark side " an maybe that's what you don't like it along the 350.5 " soft " performance. Btw and through my wide ML experiences I think that ML build/design better amplifiers than preamplifiers ( specially phono stages. ), same for Pass/Threshold ( that I know very well too. )

It is possible too that your ears could " suffer " a lose on the high frequency range ( as a fact in more or less way all of us " suffer " that perception lose. ) and that's why you are looking for " more ", well distortions almost always give " more " on that hgh frequency range.

+++++ " correct me if I'm wrong " +++++

IMHO yes with all respect and because you ask for :you are wrong.

Axel, till you have the opportunity to hear a top MM cartridge in your today system and with the right set-up your opinion more than an opinion is only " imagination ". I think that is more useful for everyone try to speak and share facts: real facts/experiences.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul, I bought a Grace Ruby with broken cantelever that I have sent out to soundsmith (the top of the line ruby retip). Assume it comes back similar with to the original sound, would you consider that to be a top of the line MM? Thanks.

Dear Toufu: Congratulations, the Grace F-9Ruby is just on the top level treshold.

It is a coincidence that you ask about because this week I begin to run this cartridge with my new tonearm prototype. It is a clear " winner ".
I performs good at 47K and at 100K too, maybe here on this topic it is a matters of preferences and system dependent. Yes, this Ruby is a good challenge to almost any LOMC.

Are there better MM cartridges ?, yes but only a few. If you want to talk about I appreciate that you do at the MM thread for give the people interested on MM cartridges an opportunity to " hear " on those cartridges.

I hope that the Soundsmith re-tip works fine.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Hi Raul,
you say:
>>> first you never heard a top MM ( like the top MC Orpheus. ) in your today system bis a bis against any top LOMC. <<<

Well, that my be true and it was the intend of this thread to find some of those top MMs. However ---- so far no one came up with even one MM cart that really seem to better an 20X-L!?! I mean are we kidding?

So maybe I should be more bold and go with your take, up the stake and ask please come up with a cart that betters a Transfiguration Orpheus?
Up to now, I would have thought people would think I'm not quite right in the head, in asking such a thing.
We all have our narrowed perceptions due to our own experiences, and therefor when Audiofeil says: "Better is in the ear of the beholder" he is right in some sense...
But how far does one wish to extend this relativistic notion?!
A Boom-box sounding now also better than a top HiFi system -- of course to the ear of the beholder?
Well, I guess relativism gets you only that far, before it becomes ridiculous, or?

Back to MMs, PLEASE then let's not massage concepts about and lets put some chips (carts) on the table. Let's hear about those MMs that are more in resolution, liquidity, controlled bass and powerful bass, transparency, revealing of inner-detail of the music, etc. etc.

Raul, I want to know about those MMs, before I go with your saying:"...your statement had almost no credibility..."

Now, let me give you some idea, and I guess it's not new, but I got it whilst listening the this Orpheus --- "Energy Storage"!
It appears that an ultra low impedance cart such as this one 1.5ohm DCR and compared to ~ .6k to 2.5k ohm! and more of typical MMs is where limits/physical boundaries, with regard to energy storage, correct me if I'm wrong.

I can go listen to a P-77 and say it sound better TO MY EARS than an Orpheus --- BS! Unless I have a hearing aid!
I measured that P-77 of mine and it has a treble roll-off commensurate with what the measurements show i.e. -3dB at the 10kHz!
A Lyra Dorian has -3dB at 20kHz, and a PW -6dB at 20kHz. Those are FACTS, and you can hear that also.

I'm also the first one to say, that measurements are not telling everything (since there are so many of them in any way..) but based on these facts, I would find it currently impossible to imagine an MM can reach such dizzy heights in reproduction as can an Orpheus. This does not invalidate YOUR experience, --- but this far I need to learn a lot more about MMs to find this understanding of mine debunked.

See, now you put some fire under my butt right after breakfast :-)

You say: The 326S like the ML 32 are a little on the " dark side "
Not AT ALL TRUE for ML326S, but true for ML32, I have heard both.

That Orpheus DOES NOT run through an SUT as you assumed, it sounds no good at all with SUT due to an impedance mismatch with its 1.5ohm DCR. It uses 1k loading and 10nF capacitance, period.

My ears are VERY sensitive to too much treble-weight as e.g. a Dorian would have. The Orpheus as does a PW have 'tamed' this behaviour as compared to some cheaper LO-MCs. The Orpheus still need 10nF, the PW doesn't but sounds more 'sat-on' in comparison.

As to the 'noise' spectrum :-0 .......
Raul, rolling off at -3db @ 10kHZ what noise spectrum? It gets damped out in an MM before it reaches your ears... I've seen that spectrum on the O'scope for both MM and MC, that's why I say that.

In closing, as for the BEST MMs Ortofon's 2M Black like that claim to fame! It was only once mentioned in passing in this thread.

So PLEASE let's have these MM facts, name the names --- I have done so and 'I'm hanging out of the bus' more then you guys.

Greetings,
Axel

Raul,
sorry I forgot one more thing please.
Your say, and using my own words here:
"Axel, you do not compare Apples with Apples", yes?

Now let us know what TOP MC carts greater 0.4mV minimum and no more than 4ohm DCR, you would have used to compare your TOP MMs.
Greater 0.45mV and less then 4ohm DCR , since otherwise you will come mention SUTs again and their influence, is not todays subject.

All these carts should easily run up from 3 500$ to say 9 000$, OK?
No problem, since $$$$ is not the issue as you say (it is for me though, most unfortunately).

Now, you can just forget ANY HI-MC in this comparison, so have you listened to an 'Orpheus' and compared it in your system to any TOP MM?

It be VERY interesting, because if not, you would accuse me of the same heresy as would be your own :-)

Greetings,
Axel