Dear Narkleptic: In those time my Sa-9800 was accopany by the PL-630 TT with an Audio Technica AT-20SS MM cartridge and the HPM-900 speakers, all by Pioneer. Good stuff.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
stock denon 103 vs. zu for my vintage rig
I'm just getting into vinyl and pondering how far to take my cartridge choice.
I've got a Pioneer SA-9800 integrated (top of the line, circa 1979) running through a pair of Magnepan IIC's (1986, I think). The sound from this set-up, at least through my Kyocera cd player, is sublime, but they vinyl coming through my Pioneer PL-50, leaves much to be desired.
This lovely table has what looks to be a vintage Pickering V15 with a newer replacement D625 stylus.
The resolution is poor to fuzzy. It could be my newbie attempt at cartridge set-up, but I do believe as well that my system would be best served by a cartridge upgrade.
Seeing as my amp is equipped with an MC phono stage, I was thinking about the classic Denon 103.
My tonearm is the original Pioneer, which I understand is on the heavyish side, so the low-compliance Denon should be a good fit.
The question is whether or not to spend the extra scratch on a Zu-modified version.
The $499 zu's are all sold out, leaving only the pricier, lower-tolerance variants. With that in mind Audio Feil's discounted Prime cartridge at $699 seems the best choice of the available zu options.
So the question is, is it worth it for me to spend about 3 times the price for the zu vs. the standard 103?
From reading around, it seems there is a definite upgrade, but a few have complained that some of the 103 "magic" has gone by the wayside.
Or is my gear not up to the challenge of delivering the best the Zu can offer?
I've got a Pioneer SA-9800 integrated (top of the line, circa 1979) running through a pair of Magnepan IIC's (1986, I think). The sound from this set-up, at least through my Kyocera cd player, is sublime, but they vinyl coming through my Pioneer PL-50, leaves much to be desired.
This lovely table has what looks to be a vintage Pickering V15 with a newer replacement D625 stylus.
The resolution is poor to fuzzy. It could be my newbie attempt at cartridge set-up, but I do believe as well that my system would be best served by a cartridge upgrade.
Seeing as my amp is equipped with an MC phono stage, I was thinking about the classic Denon 103.
My tonearm is the original Pioneer, which I understand is on the heavyish side, so the low-compliance Denon should be a good fit.
The question is whether or not to spend the extra scratch on a Zu-modified version.
The $499 zu's are all sold out, leaving only the pricier, lower-tolerance variants. With that in mind Audio Feil's discounted Prime cartridge at $699 seems the best choice of the available zu options.
So the question is, is it worth it for me to spend about 3 times the price for the zu vs. the standard 103?
From reading around, it seems there is a definite upgrade, but a few have complained that some of the 103 "magic" has gone by the wayside.
Or is my gear not up to the challenge of delivering the best the Zu can offer?
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- 18 posts total
Narkleptic-I-and many, many others-believe the DL-103 has plenty of 'magic'. I'd start with the base model, look at some mods, such as here http://home.comcast.net/~omaille/audio/home.html, and when it's time have it retipped for a really nice cart. For the price, I've heard nothing better. Raul's opinions are as good as anyone's, but he's definitely in the minority with his aversion to DL-103s and it's variants. Try the archives at VA for lots of info. |
Dear Johnbrown: I don't have an aversion on the 103 that was my first MC cartridge and that I own along other 103 variants. I agree with you that my opinion is an additional one, no doubt about. +++++ " For the price, I've heard nothing better. " +++++ IMHO because maybe you never have the opportunity to do it but I an tell you for sure that a MM can convince you if you have the right set-up on it. The subject is not who wins: you or me, NO the subject is according with the Narkleptic system whch could be a better alternative and for you can help in the best way you have to know his Pioneer SA-9800 that I owned and that I know exactly how to take out its best and certainly is not through MC. Regards and ejoy the music, Raul. |
If the PL-50 is the one I am thinking of from 1980 or so (rosewood veneer - looks like a mini Exclusive P3), and the arm is not damaged, I would not think the issue is with your table by itself, but suggest it is with cart (which is in my opinion one of the few carts I would call 'brutish' - the VTF can easily be set without a scale). I remember the integrated (there was a 9900 as well), but do not remember whether it had the ability to take MC carts. Thought not. The DL-103 and 103R are 8.5g, which assuming a 10g headshell is right in the sweetspot of what the arm can handle (arm good for 14g-24g including headshell); I think the DL103R is a great cart for the money if you are buying a new cart (or can find it used), and I have heard of enough people who have had success either nuded or repotted in a different shell that it might be worth a try. It is, unfortunately, deserving of a decent head-amp (or SUT) and I do not know how the Pioneer deals with those - and of course that would be extra money. Some of the MM carts mentioned in that thread Raul mentioned are really quite good. I have been reasonably impressed by a Technics 205CMk3 and a Garrott P77 (and a NOS Technics 100CMk2 I bought a while ago has beaten them both). It has to be noted though that at that price range, all carts have a 'flavor', including the Denon 103. You can also try the arm both with and without damping oil to see how it works. The other thing I have noticed with the PL-50 (I have a PL-50L) is that it is significantly improved by using a lightweight isolation platform. Non-Dealer Disclaimer: I have too many tables and carts and some of them I will be trying to sell off in the not too distant future (probably including the PL-50L, and possibly some of the carts mentioned). |
- 18 posts total