Why is the price of new tonearms so high

Hi Perrew,
thank you, and back to the subject.

When it comes to new tonearms, affordable ones, it seems there is the RB250, 300, plus some already more pricey mods by 'Origin Life' and then what..... ?

How helpful it could be, to have some value-added notions on any other arms, what about the JELCO range?

A lot of these pricey modern arm are 'jewels' absolutely beautifully made --- and come at a jewellers price too.

Looking for a good, down to earth, value/performance arm I'd like to know about some of these.

In this forum, this far, one can take away the opinion that e.g. an SME V is hardly to be mentioned! ~ $5 000 and below is just too unspeakably gauche. No wonder the question was: "Why are the prices so high...?"

Dear Halcro, you are right.
No - I won't spice up this 1st sentence with one of my over-egomanic, sarcastic, ironic, acid (or whatever...) Gunnery-Drill-Sergant (God - T_bone, that was a great one !!) follow-ups.
Even if I rather see me acting for some other people here rather as an unpleasant mirror showing their own demons reflecting back in their face.

In any case - people like you, T_bone, Kirkus, Perrew and a few other fellow Audiogoner did got nothing but clear answers and comments from me in the past 3-4 months on Audiogon in the various analog-related posts - right ?

I NEVER critizsed any other Audiogoner's System set-up featured by pictures and/or description ( certainly not because I thought they were perfect, but because it is their toy and period.), I never said to anybody here in any post that he is deaf or has wrong listening biases.

Only I am getting accused.

Did I ever asked for your listening biases or "qualification".
Nope.
My listening bias ?
A TRUE reproduction of the real thing.
Including a real space with a sense of 3-dimensionality reproduction of individual sound sources.
Uncolored etc. that is not worth further mention.
Accompanied by - and this is a VERY fascinating experience - a convincing sense of real-life physical "weight" in each singular source convincing the listener that something is actually "there".
Add real life dynamics and colorful tone and you have my bias.

So what do these omnipresent audiophile phrases help ?

Nothing.

Most would claim the same being theirs.
So we are again in "audiophile vacuum" of individual experience and individual levels and biases which none of the other can judge and value - unless sitting on the sweet spot in the room of the other in a 1st world experience.
That is the link between Syntax, Heradot and me.
We can value the comments of the others and we can understand each others point-of-view.

As for the Technics SP-10 Mk2 and Mk3 discussion: I can very well understand Porter's point-of-view and do understand as well their moves.
I know from 1st hand experience the possibilities of the SP-10 (any version) as well as its limitations ( no matter what plinth in use).

These discussions about sound and listening biases via the internet are futile to the extreme - as none (or very few...) are based on real experiences.
So what is happening here?
We are exchanging personal experiences, point-of-views and positions - all these do lack a common ground.
The components can not act as common ground as they do have too strong interaction which the system they are part of.
The listening rooms can't either.
The personal biases - of course not as unknown to teh others except for hollow audio phrases.
If we could agree on 2-3 handful of current production LPs with clear specified groove-angle compliant VTA settings - then we would have a common ground.

Harry Pearson did part of that when he established his favourite picks and used them for almost 4 decades to put his listening biases - and results ! - on a common ground.
It was a great help and it did put the audiophile review on kind of a common basis.
I followed his reviews for 12 years and then finally visited him on May 1st, 1988 in Sea Cliff.
During that 4 hour listening session I learned his biases and room and his personal preferences much better than in dozens of reviews I read in the years before.
Now I had a picture.
Everything before was a vague idea - now, and only now I had a clear picture.
But the records did lead the way.

If we could agree on a package of 20 records which are available for standard price to all audiophiles - that would be a small step for each, but a big step for the audiophile community in terms of a common ground and better understanding each other.

And of course - there can never be a "perfect" or "best" component.
Why ?
Because each and every component - foremost the tonearm ! - can only be seen in interaction with its mated partners.
As we haven't standards for output-/input impedance, sensitivity, cantilever compliance, groove-angle and gain - we are dealing with a system of countless parameters depending on the other.
Dreadful situation.
Unthinkable in Pro-Audio.

In any case - I guess the common ground is worth some discussion.
Let me strongly encourage you and others to work out such a package and try to establish it.
It will be helpful to all.
Being 10, 20 or 30 records - it will be enough to cover all aspects of recorded music and we have enough high quality recordings around (thanks to the great wave of re-issues from golden days past) to have open choice.

I hope some fellow analog-Audiogoners do try to bring this package on state and established.
I won't participate.

Did you notice that I didn't mention the particular tonearm I'm in love with in this whole post............

Cheers,
D.

Dertonarm, nothing but clear answers thanks.
Good suggestion with 10-20 common records!

I read one reviewer that was not very impressed(to say the least) with the Walker to SP10 move?

And with huge danger Im now opening up pandoras box and asking about the combo of FR7/FR66/XF1 is there a better step-up out there?

Hi Axel, as for decent (below $1000) priced tonearms, I would heartly recommend the bigger Jelcos as well as the venerable (dynamically balanced and most versatile..) old Micro Seiki MA-505 (many versions on the market - try to go for the "x" or "s" - both are silver wired).
All these do change hands for between $400 and $700 and can teach many much higher priced tonearms a thing or two.
Cheers,
D.

Hi D.
your 20 set LP reference is an interesting suggestion --- though it seems grounded in trying to get some form of 'perfection' where it can not be gotten.

When my audio-friend has often a hard time to find consensus listening to the same record / same system as I, gives me the idea it can only get more difficult, not less.

Next, a good product will not be 'sunk' just by some divergent listening impression. (They still make and sell SME arms and others, despite some hefty criticisms, that I do not have to repeat, yes?)

If 'perfection' was the goal we could close down every forum and junk every specification, as we know that the ear has it's own ways.

I think your quest for perfection, where there is only so much of an approximation possible, gets into your way more than it helps, in fact you know this too well!
But like a Sheepdog you can't help your nature, and keep chasing the 'bus' :-)

Now, if I want to verify some listening impressions in the forum and find mine either completely contradicted or affirmed, I have learned something!
This in turn can be synthesised into either a new or different understanding, and so on.

If you say: "I have no questions..." then you are done, finished. Yet, we are never to old not to learn something new.

In some other thread I ask for listening impressions of two carts, based on how they sound in my system.
If someone else hears them differently I have two option:
1) tell him that he is wrong! Well I have my prove or?
2) thank him, and go back maybe with his good suggestion and see what I now will find, and I have learned something.

It's all about information acquisition and synthesis, and NOT about refutations, at least in a forum.

Looking for spreading your one and only truth?
Get a soap box, stand on it, preach, make disciples :-)

Axel
PS: The FR is truly a beautifully machined/manufactured tonearm, no idea what it sounds like.
Probably very nice in my system, since my system sux, as I can not hear any difference between dynamic an static VTF either :-)