Anti skate and tonearm damping query

Hm,
I still don't get it, call me stupid alright :-)

Put any (hypothetical) 20, 60, 90 deg. off-set angle on a POINT contact only stylus (I'm not talking distortion right now) just spinning on a blank vinyl -- what effect will you notice as long as the point contact to pivot would be the same?
No difference at all is what I stated earlier.
(no 'spade' is getting dragged through some sludge or a groove at this test!)
The stylus' point, sliding over smooth (no groove!) vinyl, will want to align the arm wand in a straight line *pivot to centre of rotation*.

Now increase the over-hang and then what happens?

The more overhang, the longer the frictional force's lever. It will pull the arm wand harder in line (pivot to centre pin) = more skating force? I think so.

Or no change at all? I do not think so.

In deed, what means off-set angle with regard to a 'round' point (contact stylus tip) any way?! - as long as the over-hang length is not affected?

Axel

Doug

I find your argument a little confusing. If one did as you say and merely twisted the cartridge in the arm while keeping the alignement of the arm WRT the groove tangent the same, you would create very little force, as my post above explains.

The force you do create would be because the cantilever was bent out of alignment and the suspension is trying to force it back. This force is very small compared top the true skating force and with good alignment it is even smaller.

Mark Kelly

Oops

The Xs and Ys are reversed. Consider the arm lying along the X axis with the Y axis pointing down and it comes out right.

Sorry about that

Mark Kelly

Mark: I'm interested specifically in what your thoughts are on antiskating as it relates to stylus profile.

If I'm reading you correctly, elliptical styli should require less antiskate than spherical and line contact should require more than elliptical-please correct me if I'm wrong and misunderstanding your post.

Despite all the reading on (in theory) how little antiskate may actually be needed, I've found that my Denon 103R (with its stock spherical stylus) sounds best with an antiskate setting that is very close to the 2.6 gram tracking force.

I'm in the process of having another 103R retipped with a line contact stylus and am curious as to what, if any, changes I may have to make with antiskate when that cartridge comes back. Would you expect that, like the stock 103R, one retipped with a line contact would require antiskate set to approximate tracking weight? Thanks in advance.

HDM

The reason tonearm manufacturers put a scale on the antiskate corresponding to VTF is that the skate force is directly proportional to VTF, not that it equals VTF.

The constant of proportionality has already been factored in and the manufacturer based this on "average" vinyl composition and a typical contact area.

The difference between your old stylus and your new stylus will depend on the degree of polish on the diamond and the actual area of the contact patch. Note that with line contact styli the actual area changes with VTA so VTA and antiskate interact. BTW This is the only rational explanation of the effects of VTA I know of.

This also shows that even if one confines onesself to the realms of actual verifiable physics the situation "on the vinyl" is quite complex. There is nothing in audio which can't be explained with physics, its just that we haven't worked out all the physics yet. One thing is certain, if an explanation for an effect defies the known laws of physics than that explanation is wrong.

Mark Kelly