Dynavector XV-1s and JMW 10.5i question

Doug,

I agree it can be a break-in issue. It can also be the listener changing his perspective. Sometimes one gets into a hypercritical mode of listening and will then hear all sorts of things going wrong.

I don't myself fiddle with VTF. My arm (Basis Vector) is extremely difficult to adjust when it comes to VTF. Your use of whatever LP you are playing for adjustment would mean you are listening to something other than mis-tracking, unless you run your cartridges very close to the edge. I don't come close to any kind of obvious mis-tracking on all but a handful of LPs. What you are talking about are very subtle cues being detected by highly trained listeners who must be familiar with all other aspects of the particular system. In short, it is not an approach for a basic setup by someone who is somewhat of a novice. I agree that fine tuning a system is ultimately done by listening to regular records.

Have you used test instruments, like an oscilloscope, or the computer-based systems, like that produced by Feickert? I once had a shop check out my table. They thought my azimuth, which I set by ear, looked a bit off and so they used a test record and an oscilloscope. To their surprise (not mine), I had it dead on the money. I am wondering if test gear can be a fast and reasonable approach to setting something as subtle as azimuth.

My arm (Basis Vector) is extremely difficult to adjust when it comes to VTF.

Easy fix (if you're inclined to bother): buy a few O-rings of a size to fit snugly on your end stub. Sliding them on behind the c/w reduces VTF 2-3 hundredths of a gram per O-ring. Nudging a ring slightly this way or that tweaks VTF by a few thousandths of a gram. Quick, cheap, repeatable and won't mess up your main c/w, which on your arm is indeed even fussier then on my TriPlanar.

Your use of whatever LP you are playing for adjustment would mean you are listening to something other than mis-tracking, unless you run your cartridges very close to the edge.

Good deduction, and right on both counts. We do run VERY close to the edge. Our top cartridge has always performed its best within .01g above the mistracking point on most LP's, one reason we're constantly adjusting.

I've posted before about what we listen for. In brief:
- if VTF is a hair too light, bass response, the weight at the center of each note and MACROdynamic strength fall off just before you reach the point of mistracking
- if VTF is a hair too heavy, HF extension, MICROdynamic "snap", delicate decays and air all suffer (pretty much what Philb7777 is experiencing)

The XV-1S is somewhat less fiddly than our cartridge and has a broader sweet zone, but IME it still likes to be within .02-.04g of mistracking on dynamic LP's.

I don't come close to any kind of obvious mis-tracking on all but a handful of LPs.

Likewise. That's why I advise choosing a "difficult-to-track" passage, especially for those who aren't practiced at fine tuning VTF by ear. Finding the actual mistracking point (and measuring it so you know) provides a cartridge-specific, LP-specific baseline.

Agree this is not for a total novice, but Philb7777 is now sensitized to HF extension and air, and adusting VTF is a skill he must acquire if he wants to advance in this sport. It's also quick and easy to return to the previous setting if he doesn't like the results (by using any decent scale).

We also used to adjust azimuth to minimize crosstalk with mono test tones and a Wally Analog Shop (notch filter + DMM). Like you, after spending hours recording measurements we found we can set azimuth by ear just as accurately, and far quicker. I'm not surprised you do the same. After roughing in by eye it's easy to fine tune when you know what to listen for. If minimizing crosstalk is the goal then what to listen for is self-evident. (That's a quiz, for any who don't know!). ;-)

Apologies to Philb7777 for the semi-threadjack. Hope some of this is useful.

Absolutely no apologies necessary Doug! This one of the many reasons I love Audiogon so much. A great website, but most of what makes it great is the community of audiophiles and enthusiasts. All of you are very insightful and helpful. I will start tweaking away this weekend and let you know of my results. I am definitely a novice, and certainly with the great gear I have and enjoy so much, its about time I start to learn how to manage my vinyl front end.

My buddy came over yesterday and put another dollop of blu-tak that took the distortion out of the right channel on the test record. Then we listened to music and although maybe slightly improved, it still lacked what it once had. Maybe after 150 hours the suspension has changed. I know on thing for sure, its a gob of blu-tak I've got on it for anti-skate.

This weekend I will experiment with anti-skate, damping fluid, and VTA and VTF. I'm going to get a good scale today.

Thanks a ton guys and I will keep everyone posted......

Phil,
Analogue playback for the novice can be over whelming at first start. You quickly learn nothing about it is convenient with its use. And when things go wrong....

With a bit further involvement and gained knowledge it seams like all your doing is trying to keep ahead of all the little negative things that effects vinyl play back.

However when all is dialed in to the best of your abilities and the power coming into your home is clean for a change you quickly forget all the work involved and you actually don't mind the care and attention vinyl play back demands.

Once you have the issue resolved that you are now experiencing I would recommend learning how to set up your own system.

By doing so you will gain an appreciation along with a much deeper knowledge on how everything works together for the better and sometimes for the worst.

I see you have ordered a Mint protractor, good.

It could be your cables have become intermittent. This can be checked with a meter. L & R should read the same. You might also want to check capacitance to make sure it hasn't jumped.

The other possibility is just the suspension everyone's been talking about. If it's broken in and sounding less quick and open, then you probably have too much downforce now.

Reduce VTF as low as you can while still having low distortion in the left channel with no antiskate an the hifi news record. Then increase the AS again until the right clears up.

I like the hifi news record more than the analogue productions one, which seems to require an intermod distortion analyzer. Even a simple scope or computer based analyzer isn't enough for that one. It's more pro oriented.