Upgrade from TW Acustic Raven AC-3 to what?


I have had the TW turntable (with 10" Da Vinci Grandezza arm and Grandezza cartridge) for two years. I have been happy with this TT and can live with it for a long time although i wish it wasn't as dark sounding, that the soundstage could be more spacious and the bass tighter. The upgrade bug in me is wondering for 50K ore thereabout, is there a TT that is superlative over the TW? One that would end my upgrading itch for the next 10 years?
128x128alectiong
.... and sound pressure, building frequency - just to complete the listing even further and to illustrate the point a bit more precisely.
The different sound of turntables does indeed has its roots in different combinations of faults and periphery sourced disturbances which alter the playback situation and falsify the signal during the extraction from the grooves.
A truly great turntable has no sound.
Best possible isolation from building frequency and ground- as well as air-transmitted vibration is a FIRST major step.
Picture the electron microscope...... I mean this it is so obvious and easy.
The sharp image of an electron microscope resting on an isolation table (or inside an isolation suspended ROOM....) and the totally disturbed vague idea of something when the suspension is switched off.
The similarities between the TT w/tonearm and cartridge and the elect.-microscope should be obvious - both do deal with comparable dimensions and both need undisturbed surroundings to do their job.
Get the AC-3 on a Vibraplane first (or a Minus-K) - listen then rethink about sound and the way you want to go.
In any case - enjoy the journey.
D.
We all agree. We just may or may not agree on what is a cow and what is a racehorse.

Syntax, I am blown away by the description of your speakers. They must be remarkable.
Alectiong,
I've heard the Raven and really liked it at Highwater. I really like the sp10 mk2 better though at a fraction of the cost. Properly replinthed(which can be done for you) it is hard to beat. I would suggest trying something like this before spending 50K. There's a NOS mk2 just listed today here on audiogon. Someone needs to buy this so I won't be tempted. My wife would really appreciate it.
Alec,
With your budget, why not keep the Acustic Raven for now and buy a Technics sp10 mk2 or mk3 from AlbertPorter or from Xactaudio or from Saskia and compare them in your own home. You will be comparing excellent examples of two very different, yet widely acclaimed, paradigms. And although I like a/b comparisons, I'm not suggesting this would be one. I'm suggesting you live with each for several months and by the end of that time you will probably know your direction.

Then, report back because I'm dying to hear the results.
Jeff
Dear Lewm, excellent point !!

** We just may or may not agree on what is a cow and what is a racehorse. **

That is exactly the dilemma .........
Both animals do live on grass (or should....), both do chew grass (again and again...), both feature 4 legs, 2 eyes at the sides of their skulls, several stomachs and tend to leave at the first sight of real (or anticipated...) danger.
But as similar as they may look grazing from 200 yards , as different they are if viewed in close range.
It already stops at the hoof (or the lack of it....)......

I do not think that Alectiong will give a Technics SP10MK2 a listen.
What he did describe and what he wants to achieve will lead him on different and much more costly paths.
The SP10 MKx is nice.
With a sophisticated plinth it is good - compared to the price range $3k to $7k.
You want to try a really good DD TT, one that shows off the abilities of this drive concept?
Get a Mitch Cotter B-1 w/ big Denon DD.
You get a WORKING suspension with low frequency tuning for free.
But even this monsters abilities do soon come to an end.
But you do not get around its way too low platter weight (way too low to successful fight back playback inherent vibrations transmitted into the platter - and already way more heavy than the Technics SP-10's platter.....) in the first.
If you are running a speaker REALLY capable of the lowest 2 registers (... like Syntax's for instance, which shows a low level authority, speed, air, transparency and lack of distortion you won't hear anywhere else ...) in flat response, you will find out in due course, that all great turntables able to provide those lowest 2 registers (and by doing so "donating" to the listener all the upper registers with increased ease and transparency as well...) will feature a platter weight of at least 30 lbs and way up.
Regardless of bearing type or drive mechanism.
It is a game of amplitude of energy implied versus mass.
We can't get around it.
At least not on this planet ......
The 8 TT's I have recommended to listen to indeed have this one feature in common (the Basis may be a little less (but only a little...) in weight, but makes up for it with extreme good damping - but then it too is the one in the group with the least low bass dynamics - sorry, Syntax.....).
Turntable design is working with fairly easy physical rules and the ability to get along with them in a given price frame and idea of physical appearance.
A truly great TT will never come cheap, will always be very heavy and will always feature a high mass platter and low frequency suspension from periphery.
This is not my honest opinion nor my concept - its a direct result of mother nature and her concept and the bundle of physical events taking place when mechanical information is extracted by a tonearm/stylus combination from a grooved record.
Don't like that idea? - Me neither ..........
But then I never liked gravity too.
Unfortunately my dislike of gravity never actually helped.
Enjoy the journey........
D,