Reel to Reel decks

Orpheus10, good to hear about the rs1500 upgrades. I really like the rs1500, my first plan had been for outboard bottlehead electronics but will focus on transport performance then think about the playback electronics. The J corder decks made me think about possible upgrades to the stock electonics, I haven't even had the chance to use my 1500 much, there are a few corrosion spots on the two tape roller bearing housings that come in contact with tape so I stopped using it until I can replace/address that. Tape is great

Mikelavigne, when I described my recording ritual, "headphones and recording in silence"; you understood that as my reason for "playback better than source phenomenon". (my fault) I will now describe and give my reasons for this phenomenon.
This only occurs with 2 track reel at a speed of 7 1/2 IPS or higher. This is partially the result of tape width. A cassette has narrow tape, a reel has wider tape. Most reels record in 2 directions; they use 1/2 the tape in the forward, and the other half of the tape in the reverse direction. 2 track uses the complete width of the tape in one direction. If you can compare the difference in the sound of a cassette and a reel, you will see where I am going with this. The sound of a reel is bigger and fuller, this is before we get to 2 track. If you have not carefully observed this difference, it will be impossible for you to conceive the "Phenomenon, playback better than source", with 2 track.
Audio "phenomenon" in the "hi end" must be heard to be believed. Before I became an "Audiophile", I thought they were crazy people who had more money than sense. After I went to a "hi end" emporium, I became one. Logic and reason can lead to conclusions that are shockingly wrong. Some phenomenon have to be witnessed.
Fish swim, birds fly, tigers hunt; I am an "Audiophile", I listen.

Enjoy the music

Orpheus10 wrote;

This only occurs with 2 track reel at a speed of 7 1/2 IPS or higher. This is partially the result of tape width. A cassette has narrow tape, a reel has wider tape. Most reels record in 2 directions; they use 1/2 the tape in the forward, and the other half of the tape in the reverse direction. 2 track uses the complete width of the tape in one direction. If you can compare the difference in the sound of a cassette and a reel, you will see where I am going with this. The sound of a reel is bigger and fuller, this is before we get to 2 track. If you have not carefully observed this difference, it will be impossible for you to conceive the "Phenomenon, playback better than source", with 2 track.

trust me; i get it. i'm a tape head, here is a picture of my tape deck family. but.....as good as i know a 1/4" 15ips 2-track recording of a source can be, it's not better than the source, or even totally equal. and in the case where a tt has no audible feedback effect from speaker feedback there is no logic to claiming a tape recording of it will improve it. it may introduce pleasing artifacts which some might prefer, but physics is physics. the step of recording degrades any source to some degree.

and in my particular case; my Rockport tt betters my RTR decks ocasionally even on 15ips 1/4" master dubs where both the Lp and master dub had the same source. not all the time, but sometimes.

now; if somehow your tape deck output electronics are better than your phono stage, or some other signal path in-equality is happening, then anything is possible. i suspect it is much more likely that your phono stage is better (more refined sounding) than your tape deck's signal path.

Orpheus10,

i went back and read some of your posting on threads relating to reel to reel to try to better understand your perspective. i read some responses to some of your comments.

i don't presume to tell you how you feel about anything; but it seems you use the word 'better' to describe 'different in a way i prefer'.....which i can relate to and agree with. if you simply 'prefer' the sound of recording your vinyl onto 2-track tape then please enjoy. but it's the point of insisting it's 'better' in objective ways where the conflict occurs.

yes; if a tt is sufficiently negatively affected by speaker feedback then a case can be made that a 2-track tape recording made with headphones could be better in some ways (but not all ways). but that would mostly indicate that you need to improve the isolation scheme of your tt to make it less prone to that speaker feedback.

Mikelavigne, apparently, we are seriously trying to communicate as opposed to proving a point.
Let us go to photography. If you magnify an excellent photo, it will be bigger. My playback on the 2 track is "bigger" than the original, also the electronics in the reel have been upgraded. The playback is equivilant to an equipment upgrade. Is "bigger" better?