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Looking for the Honda S2000 of turntables

This turned out much longer than I anticipated, so I understand if you folks skip right over this post. For the rest of you, here we go.

I've been reading a lot about turntables for quite some time now. I have learned about matching tonearms and cartridges, resonant frequencies, compliance, azimuth, null points. And still I have difficulty choosing a model. Part of this is simply the number of choices available and the amount of disagreement between posters to forums such as this. But I think the biggest part of this is that one man's trash is another's treasure. People want different things from their turntables.

Look, there are folks out there, and you may be one of them, who are willing to devote time to tweaking and comparing and upgrading to squeeze every last bit of performance out of your systems. This is not a knock; it is clear you are passionate about your hobby and I am happy to see people get so much joy from their music. I wish I had the money, time and ears to conduct such experiments myself, but that's not me and it's not what I am looking for.

Here's what I am looking for in order of importance:

1. Tracking ability. I've read reviews to the tune of "this cartridge is amazing! Such detail, so dynamic! It doesn't track very well, but the slam!" Huh? If it doesn't track well, I don't give a fish how great it sounds. I've heard inner groove distortion and I want to minimize it as much as possible. Now, from what I've read, I should get a high-compliance cartridge because they track best, which means I should be looking for a low-mass tonearm. Except that manufacturers don't list the tonearm mass on their websites (I haven't found any, unless only the ones out of my price range do so) and the online tonearm database only lists mass for a few models, and of those I can afford, none of them are low-mass. Are there no affordable low-mass arms?

2. No fuss. I've read the arguments about VTA, and frankly I don't know what to believe. Some of you guys change it for every record, others never touch it. I want to think about my turntable as much as I think about my refrigerator; I want to open the door and the drinks to be cold. I want to play a record and hear music. If it's really a simple adjustment and makes an obvious difference, I'd consider it, but it's hard to know which of these suggestions are based in reality and which are just black magic.

3. Make my music sound good. I know, duh, right? What I mean is, I want MY music to sound good. I listen to R&B, Soul, and Rock through the 1970s. Up-tempo punchy music. I suspect a lot of these super expensive rigs are necessary to reveal the subtleties of symphonic works. Again, good on ya, I'm happy for classical fans, but I will never ever put a classic record on my platter, so those requirements go out the window. Think Little Richard, Sam Cooke, Beatles, James Brown, Led Zeppelin, Louis Jordan, Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ramones, Talking Heads, that sort of thing.

3.5 On the subject of revealing detail in recordings, not all my records are in pristine condition and I'm afraid too revealing a system may bring out surface noise to a level I'm not happy with. I've read reviews that label certain cartridges as "forgiving" Is this what they're referring to? Is this something I should consider when choosing hardware?

4. Price. I have $2000 to spend on a turntable, cartridge and phonostage. When I say I have $2000 to spend, it means I have $2000 to spend, not "Well, you can get this now, and then upgrade this and this." No, I have two grand and that's that. That is way more than I spent on my last table (MMF 2.1), so whatever I get will be a big improvement. And I don't WANT to upgrade. I want it to work great now and enjoy it with no eye to the future.

Some of you may be thinking, "Buddy, you should just stick to CDs; this hobby isn't for you." First off, while no CD-hater, I have heard the difference between vinyl and CD and it is appreciable. Vinyl playback can sound alive in a way I have never heard from its digital counterpart. Also, I already have a few hundred records just waiting to be played again.

The best analogy I could think of regarding my quest for a new turntable is cars. There are sportscars out there like Ferraris, Maseratis, etc. that are magnificent machines capable of unparalleled performance and fun. They are also, incredibly expensive and fussy. These babies need to be coddled and primped and maintained not just to run well, but to just plain run! Then, there's the S2000 which is an amazing car in its own right, nimble, attractive and best of all, it's a Honda, which means the thing just works. No constant tweaking and fussing over. Turn the key and off you go. Sure, it's no Lotus, but it's no Civic either.

There we are. Thank you if you've made it this far. I really do respect the collective knowledge of the members of this board and will appreciate any advice that may come my way.
shrevie
hiho
451 posts
 
"I have read nothing but bad things about direct drive tables: rumble, resonance from the motor under the platter. Are these issues overstated?"

Yes. I wonder where you read these "nothing but bad things" from. After all, the most highly regarded and the most expensive turntable in the world, Rockport Sirius III, at the time of its release was a direct-drive turntable. The record you will be playing is made from a record cutting lathe that has a direct-drive motor. Enough said.

By the way, there's more than one brand of direct-drive turntables other than Technics so if you don't like Technics does not mean you have to dismiss the whole direct-drive genre. I prefer post-1975 era products.

There are many poorly made belt-drive turntables out there as well with toy motors and glass platters. Be ware of hack jobs.

I like idler-drive, belt-drive, AND direct-drive so whatever you choose is fine by me but to dismiss the entire genre of products based on hearsay is limiting yourself the chance of getting exposed to different sound and fun. It's a shame.

____
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
Shrevie - Here's my read on what you are saying. You want good performance and impeccable reliability. You would be happy to have wold class performance but don't want to pay for it in time, money or effort. Therefore, you willingly accept a compromise in performance in order to stay under budget and enjoy "set and forget" record playing. I'm with you 100% on all points and I not only would choose the Technics option, I have chosen it.
Technics has made and sold more turntables than any other company in the history of the world. They have spent more money on R&D than Rega will ever live to see. And KABUSA provides the bridge between the utility of the Technics DJ table and the desires and needs of the audiophile community.

In the past I have used and owned SOTA, VPI, Well-Tempered, Linn, FONS, AR, B&O, Yamaha P-2, Luxman PD441, Denon, and others that don't spring to mind just now. I just sold my Technics SP-10 because I felt I could no longer justify tying up that much capital in something I use so little. Instead I now use a Technics SL-150 MK II with a Rega RB-300 tonearm. I am doing this only because I already owned the stuff. Otherwise I'd have purchased a KABUSA modded Technics 12xx table of some sort. The testimonials from people I know and respect like Armstrod and TVAD are too numerous, reasoned, and credible to be ignored.

By the way, a lot of the fiddling and fidgeting people do with their turntables is the result of a natural desire to maximize the experience rather than a need to continually adjust due to failure or fault.
tketcham
291 posts
 
Shrevie: You're asking for a new S2000 on a base Miata budget. Unless you go for a used turntable and preamp you aren't going to find your S2000 setup for $2000 USD. But you could have a decent base Miata setup for that amount.

I know there are lots of Technics owners that swear by the 1200 but there are also plenty of Technics owners that upgraded turntables. And I'd bet that most of them spent more than you're wanting to spend. But if you want reliability and ease of ownership for what you're willing to spend, the Technics 1200 is an obvious choice. And if I was buying a 1200 I'd splurge on the KAB tweaks.

The advice on going with moving magnet cartridges is good advice if you don't want to futz around with a moving coil setup. Moving coil cartridges are my preference, but you do need to pay attention to the signal path to get them to sound their best and that typically takes some extra cash for a step-up transformer or a more complex preamp. If you keep it simple with MM you can get a good preamp and cartridge for less money.

One last thing: Despite Tvad's snide comment about the Music Hall mmf-7.1 turntable, it's a good table for the money. (Not the best, but I don't believe there's a "best" anything at a given price point.) However, to get the most from that turntable you may need to fine tune it, something you wanted to avoid.

Tom
Post removed 
clio09
3,353 posts
 
Good points Elizabeth. I don't doubt the reliability and enjoyment a Technics SL-1200 can provide. I experienced the same with my B&O machines. They're modern looking, easy to use, and offer a big bang for the buck. However, buying one in decent condition is difficult to do and it took a complete rebuild to get the most out of the 8002 I own.

On the other hand the modern Galibier Serac I own with SME Series III S and B&O MMC-2 cartridge isn't going anywhere and demonstrates a lot of virtues that current day designs offer. It has relegated the refurbished B&O 8002 to the garage.
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