When does analog compete with digital?

Define High End Sound?

One can't, it's all subjective and based on too many variables. Those who spend a lot of money buying what they deem as high end sound talk as they do to justify the purchase, to others why? If spending mega bucks makes you happy then so be it. If you spend food money, medical expenses money, mortgage/rent money doing so then you are an idiot.

There is no true definition of high end sound and price paid does not guarantee this stuff sounding good to great. It's all subjective. Put a $100,000 TT with $50,000 preamp and $50,000 power amp driving $100,000 speakers in a lousy room and it will sound lousy. Put a $10,000 system in a well thought out and properly furnished room and it may sound great even dare I say high end.

Too many so called golden ears (NOT!) audiophiles like to deride other person's gear without even hearing it. Silly I say.

The discussion is in my point of view, can one get quality analogue sound without spending mega bucks? YES! in a subjective world with all its variables one can get great analogue sound if they put it togethe with good assembly of gear even modestly priced gear. There is no reason to try to compare what analogue gear to what digital gear. Invest well your discretionary money to building one or both to sound good to you.

The height of arrogance combined with ignorance is often spoken by those who say they are audiophiles and want to impress others with mega buck systems. To that I say just enjoy your gear, you do not need to justify it to any of us, nor do you need to try and run down more modestly priced gear. You have no clue as to how good even a modest system using competent gear may sound without hearing said system in a room.

In this hobby you spend money on a system, it can be digital and/or analogue, a lot of $$$ or fewer $$$ and in the end if you are a hobbyist you will try to build a system that makes you happy be you spending a lot of $$$ or fewer $$$. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS!

>>07-27-10: Orpheus10
Jferrier, the reason I posted on this thread is because I become incensed when beginners are led to believe they can get the "Analog" sound that everyone raves about for less than 2K<<

They can get it for around $1K as I indicated in a previous post. There are many other combinations as well.

As a beginner yourself, it will be clearer with more experience.

Good luck to you.

I will agree with Audiofeil (I must be coming down with something - this is at least the second time this year) that spending $1000 on a used setup can get you a goosebump-inducing sound (though as others have said, it takes more to get all the way). Unlike the other parts of most people's source components, there is a significant physical aspect to turntables. That includes support. I will agree with Samhar's comments above, certainly in your system (turntable on top of 'wood' desk on hardwood floor), I would be fearful of environmental noise getting into the turntable. The first thing I would do in your case is get a suspension/isolation system which reduced the resonant frequency of environmental noise. This could be magnetic suspension, or something similar (Yamamoto makes little magnetic repulsion footers, I think Clearaudio may too, Sony used to; a Relaxa platform works too). I expect that would improve your result somewhat, and perhaps somewhat dramatically.

I will have to let others comment on your table/arm, cartridge, and phono stage as I don't know them. The table you have has a very small footprint, and if maintaining that footprint is important to you, the things you have to work with are probably suspension, cart, and phono (as I don't know if the arm is replaceable).

Dougdeacon's point about a $125 MM cart being wonderful BECAUSE the other two parts of the system (table/arm and phono stage) are up to snuff is key. One can say there are three parts to the system (and there are sometimes more, depending on how you set yours up) and if any one of them is not up to it, the whole will be dragged down to the level of that one. Personally, I find the cheapest ways to improve an existing setup are usually, in order of improvement/cost ratio, is 1) suspension/isolation, 2) a good protractor and good setup, and 3) a better phono stage. Oops, forgot to mention periodic use of Magic Eraser to clean the stylus (thanks Doug!).

I have one analog system in place where I "cheat" on the phono stage because it is in a preamp, but used the table, a cheap-ish vintage MM cart, plus half of the phono/pre cost me less than $1000. That said, it cost me a lot more money and time and learning to be able to put that together, and considerable luck on the used market (used, the table+arm+cart would be more than that on Audiogon if you could find them, and the preamp was not sold in large numbers and is relatively unknown, but an absolute gem in any case). Nevertheless, that system, even if it cost $2k, would be sufficient to get one very far in vinyl.

Michael Fremer himself a man who is a huge proponent of quality analogue playback states that one can get great analogue playback by even buying a good new starter table for around $350 with included cartridge.

Add a decent phono preamp and you get excellent. Maybe step up for a few $$$ more a better cartridge and you're set on your way in this hobby for a few $$$. How does it compare to quality digital sound? Who knows? It's all subjective. But IMO my most enjoyable playback experiences come from good vinyl discs playing back on my system.

My Dual 1264 with vintage Goldring cart playing through a vintage Yamaha receiver in my second system is worth way less than $1000 but darn if it does not put out some most enjoyable sounds these days! I've had the Dual and Goldring for a good 20+ years or so now but it sounds the best ever on the Yamaha that I picked up only a couple years back for only $65 used on ebay.