Albert Porters after market panzerholz plinths

I don't even think it would be correct to deduce that the drive systems (DD vs belt) made the most difference in the test.

It would be reasonable, however. There is a great deal to be said for tight control of the platter's rotational velocity during difficult and dynamic passages. Many in our group promptly traded in their high end belt drives (Basis, VPI, etc.) for the Technics/heavy plinth combination and were rewarded with similar satisfying results. The resurgence in popularity of vintage direct drives is in no small way related to their performance in this regard.

John

Hi Lew

I think you may agree that once you have reached a certain level of quality, all relative merits are subjective and linked directly to one's room interaction, individual components, set up, tastes etc etc.

I have not heard any of the tables mentioned with the exception of my P3, hence I cannot comment on the relative rankings.
The gentlemen has no hidden agenda's and does not participate on audio websites, just an audiophile who has listened in his own system. He has the best offerings from companies like walker, allnic, atmosphere,cj,karan to name some.

my post was not to critique the relative rankings as absolute, just to indicate that there is no absolutes.

Lew, this hobby is not difficult, it is fun and a great way to enjoy music

dbCooper,
I am sorry to see the direction your thread has taken. One year ago, I visited Albert after hearing multiple top end tables(all belt drives in the 20,0000-30,000 range). I bought his wenge plinth/sp10mk2 table(Baltic Birch/Basswood) because it sounded better to me than any other I'd heard at a fraction of the price. Since then, I have bought two more of his plinths(the twin arm panzerholtz versions and they are sonically and functionally wonderful. I thoroughly believe the narrow profit margin ESP considering the labor innvolved. I have a mk2, mk3, and soon another mk3 to replace the mk2. Every arm cartridge combo I have tried sounds wonderful in these plinhs with no trace of rumble. This puts me firmly in the jlsemrad, Albert, and Lewm camp on this issue.
I respect Raul but I feel he's speaking more out of passion than objectivity here(Allnic may not be everyone's cup of tea but clearly not just awful).
Thank God college football is upon us. Their forums are also insane but at least on Saturday the money talks and BS walks.
Good luck in your pursuit db, my money's on panzerholtz and I highly recommend Albert's if you don't have the knowledge/ti
e to do it yourself.

Thanks for your response, DU. When I remarked about the difficulty of this hobby, it was more in fun than anything else. If in the end all of this were not subjective, there would be no fodder for these discussions. But I do have to agree with Jlsemrad in the sense that there DOES seem to be a "sound" associated with the best DD turntables that one either does or does not prefer. One can easily learn to hear through the tonearm and cartridge to discern that quality imparted by direct-drive (and for me idler-drive as well). And the plinth (or the no-plinth) is very much a part of that equation. As I mentioned to Raul, when I bought my first SP10 MK2, it came in a mediocre lightweight wood/MDF plinth. To me that sounded "gray", dull, lifeless, even though the pace of music was well recreated. Similarly, my Denon DP80 came to me in a Denon DK300 plinth, the best of the ones Denon made for that table. Like the Mk2, the DP80 in the DK300 was rather lifeless. The DP80 really came to life, however, in slate (and admittedly after an electrical restoration as well). I am not at all arguing that slate per se is any better than a well conceived wood plinth. Slate was just the easiest route for me, since I am no kind of woodworker and could not afford the best of the wood plinths.

My experiences with properly designed heavy plinths is all positive.

When well executed, I believe the primary function is to add enough mass to improve resonance control without killing dynamics. This is the tough part and art!

The net effect especially on turntables like the Garrard and Technics, which have so much torque, is to improve stability and reduce vibration enough allowing the front end of the system to function quietly and retain the drive and power of the original design.

This lowering of the noise floor while retaining the punch and drive of their original design, creates a rock solid foundation, which IMO was not understood in the original plinth designs. After you experience this improvement or upgrade, it is tough to go back. Also any comparison of the performance of a Garrard or Technics to another turntable without the proper base IMO is an invalid comparison. Of cource I am assuming either system is serviced and in top working condition.

Even the turntables I have owned with minimal or no plinths, the Kuzma XL, Verdiere and Walker understood the importance of mass.

The top Micro Seiki designs with minimal or no plinths had massive platters. One would think that if enough great designs have one thing in common-Mass- there must be something there.

My impression and experience in listening to light turntables is not positive. I have listened to both the Garrard and the Technics in minimal plinths and there is no contest. They don't perform!!