Nude Turntable Project

I cleaned out my bearing as well. For no particular reason other than that Gary made it sound easy--and it was, sort of. My oil was also brown and unsightly. I used Mobil 1 20w-50 motorcycle oil as replacement. One thing to note for those considering doing this is that the screw used to access the bearing is also used to raise and lower the platter. As I found out, the platter needs to be at a particular level to avoid scraping and/or locking. It's not trivial to find the correct level and it's a serious pain to handle the unit and flipping it right side up to check whether one has found the sweet spot.

So: I pantsed a la Halcro my Victor a couple of week's back. Before I did so, I listened intently to 3 album sides and then subsequently compared the differences. I changed nothing else. Like Ecir38, I had suspected that the differences Halcro found were due to his new supporting system and not so much to the absence of the metal cover.

I'm here to report that my suspicions, at least as they pertain to my Victor, are wholly unfounded. With respect to all 3 album sides I used the changes were the same: the character of the instruments including voice became more nuanced (microdynamics?) and impactful (in terms of scale but not loudness, if that makes sense) than they were. I can better hear the music as a whole. For example, the first movement of Mahler's 9th can sound like a convoluted mess if the musical 'line' is lost. After the pantsing, I could better follow along because certain passages that were relatively obscure suddenly came to life and became 'ready to hand'. Unfortunately for me, my system still cannot reproduce the double bassess accurately--but that's another issue. Ry Cooder's guitar work in 'Into the Purple Valley' has never been as nuanced and transparent. And Paul Desmond's sax in Brubeck's 'Gone with the Wind' has never sounded so right. I am pointing out only the most dramatic cases; there are many more subtle ones.

One other difference to note is that everything seems quieter. I don't mean the noise floor has dropped, but rather that I seem to want to turn the volume up nowadays. I think the desire is connected to the decrease in distortions (trademark, Raul) that I was subjected to prior.

One potential caveat: I recently changed my headshell leads to Oyaide silver. I had them in during the initial unpantsed audition, but they might not have been fully burned in (if you believe in that sort of thing). I personally don't believe the differences I heard can be accounted for by the leads.

fyi: the copper looking thing underneath the victor is a Texas Instruments Shield. I had planned to use it underneath my platter mat but it refused to lay flat--that and I don't currently use anything but a piece of pigskin. Yet another benefit of listening to Halcro.

I agree with all that the metal chassis is a sonic problem and removing it entirely might be a good idea. I am going to try it. I had already come to the conclusion that the "pants" on the DP80 ought also to be removed, but first I am going to try damping the DP80 chassis with two thick strong rubber bands that were gifted to me.

The TI Shield won't do anything down there, especially since it is apparently not grounded. To ground it, just solder a bare wire to it anywhere on its surface and run that wire to tt ground. But in that position, it can't be of much help regardless.

The only downside to de-pants-ing is that it removes the RFI shielding afforded by the ferrous pants. Thus I would be cautious not to interpret changes you may hear in the sound solely to removal of resonances. There could be some RFI contamination via the cartridge. Sometimes any change to the sound that is new is also thought to be good, until you listen for a long while and realize you are fatigued by something irritating in the new sound. I hope this is not an issue, however.

fwiw, I tested the cover grounded vs ungrounded and never heard a difference. I just put the ti shield there on a whim, because I had it and said what the hell. I also have cut pieces of it between the motor cover and the platter. Again: what the hell.

Your word of caution, Lewm, is duly noted. I'm about 2 weeks in and I've not noticed any adverse effects. Fingers crossed. But the differences I'm hearing don't seem to be the type that would result in future unhappiness. For example, it's not as if I'm getting 'fuller bass' or 'extended highs' or a 'sweeter midrange', all of which can potentially lead to dissatisfaction in the long run.

I forgot to mention that pantsing has not changed the start up speed (as Halcro noted on his): mine still very occasionally starts at 33.32. As I noted before, I think it's due, in my case, to using a duster that puts pressure on the record as it gets up to speed. I've not ever noticed it start at 33.32 when I do not dust.

Lewm, I think the belts are a good idea but insufficient. You need the suspenders as well on those pants. By that I mean the sound dampening sheets.

On my iPhone I have an app called a Tesla meter which measures stray electrical currents (RFI). I got this to measure what was coming through my TT's can. The results told me that the transformer puts out a notable amount. I don't recall what the situation was with the ground wire at the time as I have used it in multiple configs. As I recall, the tranny faced the tonearm - food for thought. Clearly I should do some clean experiments and have good data to report - in a day or two I should be able to get to it.

Banquo, I feel guilty enticing you down the path of changing the oil and subsequently getting bearing-level problems. I experienced the same and that is why I emphasized returning the screw to the exact position in my last write-up. But of course that was too late a warning. Sorry.
Gary

08-27-12: Dover
Victor 101 -
Could you get rid of the flimsy bottom cover completely and mount the nude deck via an inverted tripod ? It doesn't look particularly rigid from the photos.
Potentially could you remove the internal transformer and some of the electronic boards from the main chassis and mount them separately to eliminate as much vibration as possible. Make sure all internal joints are as rigid as possible.

It is pleasing to see my suggestion in August last year to remove the flimsy bottom cover being successfully trialled at last. Thanks to all who have tried it.

09-10-13: Halcro
Despite the availability of accelerometers and other devices designed to measure and quantify vibrational energy and its transfer within materials…..I have seen no scientific evidence to support the many statements made by audiophiles on the nature of ‘vibration draining’ in regards to turntables….and any quantification of such?

You appear to be saying that the "improvements" you claim your new TT support structure are merely a figment of your imagination since you state "I have seen no scientific evidence to support the many statements made by audiophiles on the nature of ‘vibration draining’ in regards to turntables"

My view is that there are several sources of unwamted noise and vibration in TT's. That is one of the reasons that TT manufacturers publish noise floor specifications in the form of xxdB.
When playing a vinyl record, the stylus generates noise and vibration as well as the music you hear, resulting in vinyl record wear and stylus wear.
Most turntables have a platter that uses a spindle and thrust bearing to provide the ability to rotate. When the platter bearing rotates, this generates noise. Worn bearings are a direct consequence of this friction.
Both of these phenomena are a source of vibration and noise.
In order to "see" it, I would suggest you purchase a stethoscope and have a listen to your turntable, whilst it is working. Then have another listen when it is not working. This simple experiment may be revelatory for you.