Schroder sq and the new talea

Vertigo,

TW arm w. MC2 Finish, and Schroeder SQ w. Titan i (but the setup is critical). These 2 are believe it or not close in sound (neither on the same arm will sound that close) and are what I consider fairly neutral.

I did love my Koetsu Jade w. an Ikeda but... it still remained a Koetsu both good and bad.

For me the MC1bmk2 is a superior alternative to Koetsu. All the magic with better dynamics. Nice amount of gain and build quality is very nice. I got off the cartridge merry go round years ago w. what I have listed above. There are only 1 or 2 cartridges that might interest me. The XV-1T and if Lyra replaces the Titan i.

Also the ZYX universe which is quiet now on Agon was a great cartridge in the Schroeder. It lacked some things but did things no others do. What was nice is having different cartridge/ arm combinations allowed you to compensate for different LPs where the recording or sound needed something different.

But do not sell what you have. Keep it. It is a winner. Maybe add a 2nd alternative, but trust me you will miss it. I know I miss quite a few of my previous cartridges.

Wouldn't a schroder talea on a saskia shoot out be wild!?

it depends on your level of understanding what is going on. When you like to watch horse races and there are some cows running there too with a nice and expensive saddle, the jockeys onto say it is the best experience ever and you enjoy that...fun counts.
But when you prefer real horses...

Dgad,

With the my allaerts mc1b mk2 cart and breuer 8c mk2 , based upon what i could learn through forums like these, reviews and a bit of hard thinking, i go by faith that what i have is very very good and maybe even better than i know? Because i have owned less than 2 combinations ever! that is why , the rest of the way i have to go by faith. I dont have a extravagant budget, just extravagant tastes and appetites! so i did my research decided on the above cart. Next came the breuer using the same logic. ie, which arm is a really good arm, maybe a last... and a good match for the allaerts. I wanted to get to the "top" [or in that region at least], pay the price of admission, see if they "get me there" and stop looking and shopping. This arm and this cart seemed great candidates to accomplish that. I appreciate your response because it helps to build confidence that i've made the right decisions. Especially when it is coming from a schroder sq[a arm i have always been infatuated with]/titan i, owner who has owned the same combo on a table of the likes of the acustic and from a audiophile who has probably heard and owned more combos than i have. Maybe i exaggerate in my minds eye ,how good the schroder would sound because of my infatuation with it?

Your two combos sound similar. That is very interesting. So, my combo too, must be in some ways be in the vicinity of the schroder/ titan combo too. Therefore i kinda have some of the degree of skill of the schroder with my breuer, so i can be content.

Things will start to get blurry now as i try to predict how what you heard with the breuer/allaerts combo [on an acustic table] and what i hear with it on my lenco 78[wood/dmf panzerholz armboard] table, how the sound is different? Not to mention our other system differences which are many. [smiling] Like i said its going to get blurry![smile] Having said that ...in general terms...we are both very excited by what we hear, so it seems we are able to communicate some general truths about the virtues of this combo!!!

I bought the allaerts new so i could have a warranty and because i wanted to know that i was getting a good cart. So you could say i'm married to it, not just living together!...[laughing] Because it is staying so will the breuer.

I own a "true vintage" j45 gibson guitar. It uses all solid woods, real bone for its nut and bridge, rosewood fretboard, and even bonded with old school method of "hot hide glue" and i can hear the difference between a similar guitar made from synthetic materials and mine. Mine has a deep, earthy, buttery tone. A smoothness. That is partly what attracts me to the schroder. Maybe the difference between our construction materials in regards to what our table are made from gives me some of the attributes of wood that i think i would like. Having a acustic 1 table would probably tell alot.

I'm guessing that where the two combos depart slightly from each other is in this area? I'm talking fine degrees. As you mention they sound very similar but i would venture the schroder combo still is a few degrees more bent toward the mid range euphonics side of things[ i mean this as a virtue] .More organic, earthy midrange, while the other is more toward neutral , clean,sparkle and silky? The schroder has a "thicker" subcontext or texture to its tone and presentation? no?

Syntax, I think to some degree i have the capacity to enjoy such a comparison on both levels.

Ps...Lewn [smile]...I'm still too young to be put in the category of old fa--. I'm somewhere in between young whipper snapper and that ....AND thanks to my dad I DO still have a full head of hair...[smile]

Vertigo,

I have no experience w. a Lenco or any of the direct drive tables now in fashion. In that regard I will divert to you for how that will affect your overall sound.

But...funny to read your post above, you are almost spot on in your differentiation of the 2 combinations I currently own. More correct on the SQ/Titan i. That is why it is a great match. On point of interest if phono stage is critical in the characterization of the sound. In that regard, my phono stage matches well with both cartridges but probably better w. the Titan i which has more gain than the Allaerts which needs a ton of gain (.20mVolts).

But the Allaerts is more detailed than the Titan i w. a touch of silky smoothness. The highs are excellent with no brightness or glare. The Titan i is more full bodied in the SQ than the Allaerts at the expense of detail. The Titan i has a ton of energy and needs an arm that can handle the cartridge.

I need to move the cartridges between arms but the SQ is so difficult to setup that i don't want to fuss with it. I don't have much time to listen these days so the setup and changing cartridges has been on indefinite hold.

Your arm/cartridge combination is amazing. They are a perfect match for each other. Great for Jazz, Vocals and Chamber. Not bad for Rock & More but not able to handle the full range of dynamics of some of the other cartridges and a little less detail, with some softening of the bass.

As a final note, if what I just wrote sounds less than ideal, please understand that the "magic" you have will come at the expense of some things. You will miss it once it is gone. But it isn't for all music. Enjoy!!!

***As a final note, if what I just wrote sounds less than ideal, please understand that the "magic" you have will come at the expense of some things. You will miss it once it is gone. But it isn't for all music. Enjoy!!!***

Because our systems are different therefore our results will be different in fine ways,in fine graduations, one way or the other. So the degrees of weakness and perceived strengths you perceived in the combo might be how the rest of your system interacts with that combo for the better or the worse and therefore influence the final assessment of a cartridges forte.

I think its possible to pull and push a cartridges perceived signature ,within limits, by the myriad of contextual changes you can make by switching cables, mats, shims and components.

I'm exploring those limits through experimentation with the use of different mat materials, shim materials between the cart and arm.

I am having a couple of shims of different thicknesses of titanium made up to see how it will influence the sound. I currently have a tiny panzerholz shim installed and like the results. With each kind of shim i have to try several different mats because how one material interacted with the other might not react in the same way with the other. One change effects the others.

When i think of the influence the lenco is having on the combo, its difficult for me to gauge that without having heard a low noise table of the acustic or vpi type to compare it to. If i did it would make the task easier.

Second hand reports have indicated that both have their virtues. One has more detail and a lower noise floor while other produces more noise but is musical in its own way. One has a masters in math the other in art. The comparison was between a acustic raven 3 and a dobbins garrard i believe.

Sometimes i think maybe the wood plinth is a wonderful compliment for a aluminum based armtube. Adding a little warmth in the midband to a arm designed to be very resolving. But again in the end i have no other reference. I have heard a vpi mark 4, a scout and a rockport though.

At best i can hope that the difference between my lenco in wood plinth and a table like the acustic is similar to the difference between the TW/allaerts combo and the schroder sq/titan combo comparison.

I like to believe my wood lenco with panzerholz armboard adds some earthiness, warmth, body and texture to the final overall tone of the allaerts.breuer combo that can only come from wood based materials.

Mixing, the resonant signatures of metal, wood and plastic based materials to produce a final tone is a fine art.

For example if i want the allaerts to be more agressive for rock i can produce that quality by putting slate under my amps and influencing the final tone. If i want my sound to be a little more softer and romantic i bet i could acheive that by putting my amps on american walnut.

So i dont feel 'stuck' or feel that the allaerts magic is less than ideal for rock because i haven't drawn that conclusion yet with it. I can identify with your descriptions but i dont know if they transfer exactly to my experience and situation for the above named reason which i am trying to articulate.

The allaerts like every other cartridge is 'colored'. With my fast amps, dynamic phonostage, the allaerts powerful neodymium magnets, my speakers neodymium magnets, the speed of the breuer, the speed of silver wiring, i don't feel that my rock lacks dynamics, speed or that the music prettied up.

ACDC "you shook me all night long" sounds powerful, fast, toneful, clear, aggressive and extremely dynamic and at a very high level. In this regard people should not consider it a romantic cartridge because it is not soft like old definitions and understandings of that concept. This cart is a departure from that. There is a way in which it is "beautiful" but it should not be called romantic. As i'm sure you would agree.

What i'd like to say is that i really do feel it has inherent in its design the potential to do rock very well, using my own fender strat and biting hiwatt tube amp as my barometer. So i know what "grind" sounds like.

Anyways...as i continue to tweak and experiment i will try to steer the sound with this cart at the front, to a sound that is more and more blind to musical genre. In general as a all round performer in my opinion, in my system its already pretty close.