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Sibilance issues with vinyl rig

howdy
I've recently gotten into vinyl, investing quite heavily, and coming away unimpressed and frustrated.
the problem is sibilance...I find some albums almost unbearable, and if not unbearable, not terribly pleasant to listen to. On other albums, there is a sibilant 'cast' - even surface noise, and tick and pops have a hollow, pitched up characteristic to them that is unlike I've experienced listening to other systems. When people say 'vinyl sounds way better than cd's', I wonder what the hell they're talking about, or what it is that I'm doing wrong.
I should list out my system quickly just in case there's some familiarity within the membership and perhaps a quick fix, and also to see where I'm at in this hobby:
Rega Saturn cd player
Modwright swl9.0se pre amp
Cary audio slm 70 mono blocks
Totem model 1's
totem thunder sub
running springs haley power conditioning
harmonic tech cabling throughout
vinyl rig:
vpi scoutmaster with jmw-9 signature tonearm and single flywheel motor upgrade and vpi sds
benz micro ace low output mc cartridge
sim audio lp5.3 phono stage
harmonic tech magic cables (used) between turntable and phono stage, and between the phono stage and Modwright pre (new)...I've noted this as the magic cables are newer than what's in the rest of the system.
The lp5.3 phono stage is used, I'm the third owner
The cartridge was new....the turntable, cartridge and magic cables to the phono stage have about 100-150 hours on them now.
I'm quite happy with the cd playback...the saturn was the best under $5000 player I'd auditioned, save for one, and that is in the company of krell, copland, meridian, etc...so in general the system as a whole performs rather well...and no sibilance issues with cd playback.
I set up the turntable myself, following Michael Fremer's dvd in which he demo'd the setup of a scoutmaster. I do have a nice digital stylus gauge, and have purchased the soundsmith counterintuitive to assist with the difficulty of setting the tracking force/azimuth on this tonearm. I can't say I'm an expert at setup, but in listening there are no other issues (left/right balance, tracking erors, etc), so I figure I'm 90% there.
I've tried every resistive setting on the lp5.3. I've tried lowering the output, but I already need to set the volume at 4-5 out of 10 to get where the volume is equal to what 3 out of 10 provides using cd playback, and it didn't solve my problem anyway (thought the sibilance might be caused overloading the rest of the signal path..btw, the benz has an output of .4mv). I fiddled with vta, and found little if any difference. I meticulously clean my records (most of which are brand new) before playing, put them in rice paper sleeves, and use the requisite record and stylus cleaning brushes...in other words, I'm meticulous and thorough. I listen to a huge variety of music, and have extreme familiarity with some (admittedly not all) of the albums - I know how they should sound...ironically, it's the ones I'm familiar with that bother me the most. I do assume the new components should be broken in by now, and either way, there has been little or no change since the initial setting up.
I've invested a chunk of money time and effort, and expected the vinyl rig to sound at least as good as the cd, but I'm disappointed....would really appreciate any input...help!
josephwol
tzh21y
1,654 posts
 
The 9 inch JMW is not a good choice for MC cartridges. It simply is not good enough for this. The 10 inch JMW arm is much better in this regard. JMW 9 may be fine for MM, I am going to try this. I am planning to upgrade down the road. I just like the way the Benz sounds and it is hard to give up. I would have to think that the mistracking that is occuring cannot be good for my records

I had the JMW 9 and Scout in to have it professionally analyzed about a year ago. They could not believe how poorly the JMW 9 tracked with the MC cartridge and pretty much told me (trying to be nice about it) that the Benz was too much cartridge for the arm. They did not say that MM cartridges would not sound as good or better than MC cartridges, he just said they inherently require different things (more Mass)and different tonearm designs to sound their best. They recommended a MM cartridge for the JMW 9 on the spot. I was not willing to see the light at the time. I thought I must be doing something wrong.

I had an audiophile friend come over as he knows how to set up a table. He has a thirty year old table that tracks absolutely amazing. The sound is so solid, deep, and detailed. I am a little jeolous as I never believed a record could sound so good.

It is possible, very possible. I am now a believer.

He also told me time for a MM cartridge or a new setup.

I guess MM cartridges can be very good and are worth looking into.
markd51
763 posts
 
Sure Bill, I agree, get rid of it, go for gold, buy a TriPlanar, a Talea, an SME V, Graham Phantom, or better yet, should he buy one of the Arms-Tables you sell?

I'm running a $3450 list ZYX Airy 3X SB Cartridge on what;s considered a POS AQ PT-9 Arm, that cost me a whopping $374 on closeout from Elusive Disc, and have no issues. None at all.

Am I extracting from this Cartridge the sonics that a TriPlanar Arm could extract> I just might be very close.
No, it doesn't have VTA on the fly, should I need such?
If I do, then I think I've either gotten too anal, too involved with worry, and then maybe it's either time to yank the plug on analog, or yank the .357 and blow my brains out.

The wonderment I have, is how can an Arm, costing 5 times the price of my lowly AQ Arm exhibit such problems?

Is it a mis-understanding, and lack of knowledge to set up a Unipivot Arm?

I've noted that even in the past, that fellas like Doug D seeming to have issues with certain cartridges on the Unipivot.

Is this then a flawed design? ISn't the Shroder, Morch, and some other highly regarded arms, including the ones you sell Unipivots?

Then, may I ask, what sets these revered Arms apart from the VPI JMW?

As I would fathom an educated guess, Jim Davis at MusicDirect is probably the largest VPI Dealer in the country, probably sells more VPI Tables-Arms in one month, than the remainder of dealers do in the entire USA. How is it, that VPI, and places like Musicdirect have continued success?

No company is perfect, and perhaps the one major gripe I could find with a company like VPI, since they're relatively small, is the lack of elaborate instructions-manuals for their equipment. IMO. they probably could be better.

I would welcome-encourage some intelligent reasons why an Arm such as the Hadcock is superior?

Please don't take this as any slam, or knocking an Arm like the Hadcock. From what I've seen, although I've never sampled-heard such an Arm, it does appear to be very well made.

Note that I'm not either looking to win friends, nor make enemies with this post, and my thoughts Bill. I wish to learn, as others do. What makes the JMW Arm a totally worthless piece of hardware, can you elaborate?

I'd like to continue to use this forum as a source, and trade of information, and accurate knowledge. Mark
robob's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
robob
202 posts
 
"I've discussed this issue not only this time around, but before with others, as to why there seems to be no clear cut answer as to why sibilance problems are noted, and have now all of a sudden seem to be commonplace with a JMW Arm.

I don't recall ever reading such in the past, and the JMW seemed always praised as a very good Arm. So what changed?"

One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is that there are more of them. The VPI's are quite popular. Probably 1st or 2nd selling brand. Secondly, more of us are trying cartridges that are not a good match for the arm.

BTW, as I mentioned in my Kleos thread, increasing the VTF will help in some cases. In my case, J. Carr is picky about the VTF on the Kleos so more force is not an option.

I would have to agree with Audiofeil and say get rid of the 9 sig. Too bad Fremer and HP, etc. are not warning folks.

Y'all be cool:-)
audiofeil
4,011 posts
 
Calm down Mark.

Life's too short.
bsme85
151 posts
 
Life's too short to be offended by priggish gear snobs :-)
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