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Sibilance issues with vinyl rig

howdy
I've recently gotten into vinyl, investing quite heavily, and coming away unimpressed and frustrated.
the problem is sibilance...I find some albums almost unbearable, and if not unbearable, not terribly pleasant to listen to. On other albums, there is a sibilant 'cast' - even surface noise, and tick and pops have a hollow, pitched up characteristic to them that is unlike I've experienced listening to other systems. When people say 'vinyl sounds way better than cd's', I wonder what the hell they're talking about, or what it is that I'm doing wrong.
I should list out my system quickly just in case there's some familiarity within the membership and perhaps a quick fix, and also to see where I'm at in this hobby:
Rega Saturn cd player
Modwright swl9.0se pre amp
Cary audio slm 70 mono blocks
Totem model 1's
totem thunder sub
running springs haley power conditioning
harmonic tech cabling throughout
vinyl rig:
vpi scoutmaster with jmw-9 signature tonearm and single flywheel motor upgrade and vpi sds
benz micro ace low output mc cartridge
sim audio lp5.3 phono stage
harmonic tech magic cables (used) between turntable and phono stage, and between the phono stage and Modwright pre (new)...I've noted this as the magic cables are newer than what's in the rest of the system.
The lp5.3 phono stage is used, I'm the third owner
The cartridge was new....the turntable, cartridge and magic cables to the phono stage have about 100-150 hours on them now.
I'm quite happy with the cd playback...the saturn was the best under $5000 player I'd auditioned, save for one, and that is in the company of krell, copland, meridian, etc...so in general the system as a whole performs rather well...and no sibilance issues with cd playback.
I set up the turntable myself, following Michael Fremer's dvd in which he demo'd the setup of a scoutmaster. I do have a nice digital stylus gauge, and have purchased the soundsmith counterintuitive to assist with the difficulty of setting the tracking force/azimuth on this tonearm. I can't say I'm an expert at setup, but in listening there are no other issues (left/right balance, tracking erors, etc), so I figure I'm 90% there.
I've tried every resistive setting on the lp5.3. I've tried lowering the output, but I already need to set the volume at 4-5 out of 10 to get where the volume is equal to what 3 out of 10 provides using cd playback, and it didn't solve my problem anyway (thought the sibilance might be caused overloading the rest of the signal path..btw, the benz has an output of .4mv). I fiddled with vta, and found little if any difference. I meticulously clean my records (most of which are brand new) before playing, put them in rice paper sleeves, and use the requisite record and stylus cleaning brushes...in other words, I'm meticulous and thorough. I listen to a huge variety of music, and have extreme familiarity with some (admittedly not all) of the albums - I know how they should sound...ironically, it's the ones I'm familiar with that bother me the most. I do assume the new components should be broken in by now, and either way, there has been little or no change since the initial setting up.
I've invested a chunk of money time and effort, and expected the vinyl rig to sound at least as good as the cd, but I'm disappointed....would really appreciate any input...help!
josephwol
tzh21y
1,654 posts
 
Well, I can say is I have had my table professionally looked at. Synopsis: We checked everything with a scope, cartridge analyzer, test record, had a friend who knows how to set up tables come over and they all said the same thing, the benz needs more mass. Maybe I am just very picky. My friends table sounds fantastic and he is the one who came over and set mine up. It sounded no different than when I used the Mint LP. The only thing that has made a little difference is azimuth ajustment and VTA, helped a little. The ebony is a $$$$.%% cartridge, maybe it has a better suspension? I Don't know. Maybe my cartridge is faulty. That would be 2 Benz's in a row with problems. Not likely.

The moving magnet is probably the way to go. I had a blue point on my table a while ago and it trounced the benz in tracking. It just did not sound like the benz.

Maybe the pivot to spindle length is off on my table. I would not know what to measure, they don't list any of these critical specs. All they say is it is a drop in for the Rega RB300, so I guess I have to guess that it is the same as the Rega.
robob's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
robob
202 posts
 

"The moving magnet is probably the way to go."

It is not MM/MI vs MC. It is weight and compliance that are the issues. And yes, some of us are more sensitive to sibilance. I also hear presence peaks(maybe not as much as when younger) that others strain to hear.

BTW, in my thread someone mentioned LP playback more susceptible to sibilance than CD. I have found the opposite to be true. Particularly with low density/bit rate digital such as CD I hear more sibilance than a properly tracking LP system. My V15 Vmxr is not sibilant in a cheapie Project 2.1. This is not limited to music, I am watching twit.tv and since they went to a digital mixer their output is often terribly sibilant.

Y'all be cool,
Robert
markd51
763 posts
 
About the only observations, and conclusions I can come to is this:

Analog can be a PITA when there's a problem. It can be a major hassle isolating the weak links, or where the problems are originating at? It can amount to a lot of time invested, and a lot of hair pulling.

In regards to the possibility of two Benz Cartridges in a row being bad, I'll agree, that it is highly unlikely, but the only way to ever know for sure is to run those two cartridges in another set up.

In regards to who is right, and who is wrong, that may be something none of us can clearly determine, as we are not physically present. Whether any of our influences would be a helpful factor in the set up, and alleviation of such anomalies being experienced is also an unknown?

If I have seemed to disagree with any one poster in this thread, and I'm specifically referring to mr Bill, those were truthfully not my intentions to disagree, but to offer some possible helpful tips from the relatively small experience I have, nothing more.

I don;t think anyone will disagree that a Unipivot Arm is harder to set up versus other solid mounted designs.

When something like this goes wrong, everything becomes suspect. And when all parameters, and avenues have been explored, all stones turned, and still no cigar, then I have to agree with Bill 100%, it is time to move on, and have yourself something that makes you happy. Mark


mickeyf
153 posts
 
I think your 'spin-clean' may be at the root of the problem,if residual cleaning solution is staying on the record it has been indicated a problem in the past in forums. Buy a couple of records at a store that has a good vacuum cleaner and get them cleaned before you take them home. I would not discount it. I have bought a bunch of extremely clean looking records from a show vendor in 3 separate shows and every single one of them hissed. Unfortunately my vpi wasn't able to fully eleviate the problem. Or buy a new rocord and dont clean it before use with the spin clean.
sgunther
187 posts
 
Anyone else notice that vinyl posts get significantly more responses than digital. My guess is that vinylista's invest more time, money and emotion than do digital people but when you arrive the place is so much fulfilling.
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