Uni-Protractor Set tonearm alignment


Looks like Dertonarm has put his money where his mouth is and designed the ultimate universal alignment tractor.

Early days, It would be great to hear from someone who has used it and compared to Mint, Feikert etc.

Given its high price, it will need to justify its superiority against all others. It does look in another league compared to those other alignemt devices

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1303145487&/Uni-Protractor-Set-tonearm-ali
downunder
Dertonearm,

I'm extremely interested in this topic, as my owners are beginning to ask me about your new tool.

My first reaction is to have them buy one for me (for my Durand Talea, thank you) and I'll experiment with it and let them know. All kidding aside, I applaud your herculean efforts and the beautiful photos of the exquisite machining. My concern however is only with results. Any advantages of your tool fall into one of the following:

1. The precision with which this geometry can be implemented - can superior results can be achieved, or alternatively, can equivalent results can be achieved more easily. Easier is important to some, and "better" is important to everyone.

2. The superiority of your chosen alignment geometry

This is what I will base my recommendation on.

Before delving into the above questions, let ask you the following, on behalf of a customer who owns a Schroeder Reference. Can you confirm the following for me:

1. The protractor is "programmable" - coming with a set of some 30 templates to be used for common arms. Any arm not on the list requires a template costing $69. Is this correct?

2. Implication for Schroeder Reference owners. If the above is correct, then my customers with Schroeder references will need a template for each cartridge they use, due to non-standard stylus to cartridge mounting hole center. Is this correct?

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As I read through threads on the Mint LP protractor, I note how some of individuals struggle with viewing the stylus using the supplied loupe.

This issue is one that touches all alignment techniques involving one's having to view the stylus. It's not specific to the Mint LP, except perhaps because the Mint (like all arc protractors) tells you in no uncertain terms when you are off (by magnifying your error as you attempt to trace the arc). An addendum to the instructions would be helpful - telling you that there is no universal loupe, and that experimentation might be in order.

So, if you have freed individuals from having to use magnification to view the stylus, you have broken new ground and I applaud you.

Now this thread has gone off track with the discussion of the ideal alignment geometry. Of course it's important, but it needs to be kept distinct from the tool used to achieve it … UNLESS, you have arrived at an alignment you deem to be proprietary. If this is the case, then the perspective purchaser has only one way to implement that geometry - by purchasing your tool. I'm fine with that. Your research deserves to be rewarded.

So … what's my advice to my customer base? In plain and simple language, "it's your money and you take your chances".

Now, if you'd like to prove to the world that your methodology is superior - that someone can achieve better results with your tool over a well implemented arc protractor like the Mint LP (irrespective of geometry) - then I would propose one or both of the following experiments.

Experiment #1: Tell us the geometry you'd use for a world-class tonearm like the Durand Talea. We'll have Yip make up a protractor using this geometry and see which one best serves the music over a broad collection of records. The problem with this experiment is that the Mint LP might do a better job of implementing your geometry better, but we might not like the geometry.

Experiment #2: Implementing Baerwaald, Loefgren, and Stevenson with both your protractor and the Mint. This has the chance of giving us the broadest view - separating accuracy of implementation from geometry preferences.

Ultimately, all four geometries should be tested with both protractors, but I separated the experiments as I have, since I don't know your intellectual property considerations.

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If I appear to be holding your feet to the fire in this post, you are correct, but please realize that this is because I take my recommendations to my customers very seriously.

My initial impression of your beautifully made tool is that you have possibly selected a superior geometry - at least for individuals who listen to a large percentage of records that extend into what is today, the lead-out section. I've never been a fan of favoring inner groove performance at the expense of having higher distortion over the bulk of the stylus' path. One that further looks to bias the alignment beyond Loefgren's equations by extending the LP inward is something I'd be wary of.

There's no free lunch … other than a linear tracker, of course, and even that's not "free" … except from a geometry perspective.

Now, I would love to be proven wrong - that you have both (a) created a better mouse trap, and (b) that you have selected a superior alignment.

Lastly, now that you are a manufacturer, what is your real name and what city are you based out of?

Good luck in your new venture.

Regards,
Thom @ Galibier
Dear Jtimothya, thank you. I will post the whole UNI-Protractor manual on the website in April 2011. By then the first production run will have reached it's owners and we will have the first experience reports.
The Azimuth template is an additional feature to help getting azimuth adjustment - at any spot on the arc - as perfect horizontal level as possible.
It is an optical "helper".
Cheers,
D.
This may cause some perplexity in our forum but the most
people own just one TT, one tonearm and (can you believe this?) just one cart. They may be totaly ignorant about the
existence of something called 'Mint tractor' but dispite of
this (probable)fact they may need exactly this one. One is free of course to compare 'apples' with 'pears' but only in
the democratic societys. I am originaly from some communist
society so I know how dengerous comparitions are.
But I shoud think that even in such a society one will be
allowed to recommend to the 'glorious workers' and even the
'glorious party members' the use of a Mint protractor.
However in the cpitalist society were some persons are able
to extract from other people the so called 'surplus value'
it is possible to own many TT's, tonearms and even more carts. So this Dertonarm knows very well for whom his protractor is meant. But that he needs to do examination
after so many years since he got his degree is very amusing.

Regards,
Dear Nandric, to my surprise the UNI-Protractor found several new owners the past 2 weeks who indeed have one tonearm and one cartridge only.
Apparently it is not only about universality and versality - but also about precision.
@Thom_mackris: thank you for your detailed and elaborate post.
I will be back home tomorrow night and will grant your post with the detailed response it deserves.
Apparently I have to clear up a few miss-understandings and miss-interpretations.
However - we have already 2 excellent volunteer reviewer's of the UNI-Protractor: Downunder and Halcro.
I am sure both will compare their UNI-Protractors with the other templates currently on the market and will share their findings here on Audiogon.
Right now I am 400 miles from home and it has been a long business day with 2 enduring meetings.
But one last thing: I am not a manufacturer - I have designed the UNI-Protractor and I am supervising the 1st production run.
My Audiogon ID was used to launch the introduction here on Audiogon on my request.
I did so, because the existance of the UNI-Protractor is a direct result of two fierce discussions here on Audiogon about tonearm geometry, I designed it to demonstrate in realis a few topics - and as Downunder put it: "looks like D. has put his money where his mouth is" (I REALLY liked that one !!).
More tomorrow.
Cheers,
D.