Uni-Protractor Set tonearm alignment

Dear Thom_mackris: Nice to hear from you again.

Your post " disturb " me on some ways.
You named Schoroeder and Talea tonearm where I understand you are a distributor, then you named protractors like the Mint and the one of this thread and of course you want to serve your customers in the best way so please permit me to ask ( thank's in advance for your answer. ): all these means that the protractors supplied with the Talea and Schoroeder tonearms are so non-accurate or non-user friendly ( or both ) that you as a customer's take care of are " obligated " to look for better after market alternatives? are so bad those own tonearm manufacturer protractors or have I a misunderstood here?

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Hi Raul,

Not a lot of itme these days, but this thread was brought to my attention by a couple of customers.

Up until this point, I have been recommending arc protractors for owners of all tonearms with adjustable headshell slots. The Mint combines availabilty and high quality.

The Schroeder Reference, Reference SQ and DPS arms are a challenge, because different cartridges yield different effective lengths (I know you know this). I try to make it easy for my Schroder customers and I send them card-stock protractors made for the effective length that their cartridge yields.

After that, it's up to them if they want to order a Mint or a Wally, or whatever.

At my suggestion, the Durand Talea has a small nipple on the underside of the bearing. Joel supplies a machined aluminum bar that mates to the record spindle and the nipple to adjust the pivot-spindle distance to within about .004" (some intentional play in the record spindle hole due to turntable manufacturer variances). A quality protractor brings you to the last .004" by rotating the arm (or, on a Galibier, by adjusting the armboard with its vernier, fine adjustment).

I appreciate the heroic effort undertaken by Dertonearm. I don't take this lightly, but there are some big claims being made, and I want to separate the issue of chosen geometry from how well a tool achieves the geometry.

On the subject of geometry, I found the ad, and noted that the protractor allows for Baerwald, Loefgren, and Stevenson for both IEC and DIN (6 combinations). I must have misread an earlier post about another alignment geometry being employed.

So an experiment using the Unitractor and the Mint (note that I did not use the word "shootout") would have more validity. Only 6 protractors need to be made for it ;-)

There are some nice usability features on Dertonarm's design, and these should not be underestimated. The fixed position magnifying glass (set up for the focal length of the magnifier, it would appear), will help many.

So, everything counts when you're trying to design a new product. A more "accurate" tool that a large variety of users cannot effectively use is not as good as one that is slightly less accurate but more users can use to its full potential.

I need to make something clear. I am NOT saying that the Unitractor is less accurate. I am merely pointing out that ease of use is is an important feature. Nothing more.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

I agree. For someone like me who is more interested in listening to music at the best sonics instead of spending hours fiddling around with loupes and what not, ease of use is very important. I'd rather set up the cartridge spot on once and get on with the music.

Not to undermine Mint LP, I always have a hard time using it. Since my audio room don't have window, and my eye sight not so good, I tried table lamp, flashlight on my mouth, and even head lamp. The 10X peak lupe doesn't help either, with its mirror template, it's very confusing. So Derto Uni protractor might be it.

Dear Thom: +++++ " Up until this point, I have been recommending arc protractors for owners of all tonearms with adjustable headshell slots. The Mint combines availabilty and high quality. " +++++

I don't know how to tell this but IMHO it is a MAIN responsability of a tonearm manufacturer supply his customers that paid/pay multi K dollars for the tonearm with an accurate protractor in a way that we customers don't have to worried in any sense on that whole subject.

In the other side that a tonearm distributor ( like you ) support customers with advise on after market protractors could means that that manufacturer tonearm target about protractors are not achieved.

This fact is pity for we customers. This subject is like when you go to buy a car ( any ) then you paid for it but guess what?: your car comes with out tires, obviously that this makes no sense and certainly you or any one of us never be willing to buy a car with out tires or engine: so then why we accept that that tonearm comes " incomplete " ( with out tires/engine. ) and no one said a word about ( including audio distributors/sellers. ) but instead of make a claim to the tonearm manufacturer we are willing and exited and happy to buy/bought not only one after market protractors but several ones.

Maybe it is time that we customers could think to charge the tonearm manufacturer/seller where we buy/bought it the price for at least one after market protractor or ask to them that supply an accurate protractor with the tonearm we are buying.

I know that some of those tonearm manufacturers are reading this thread and I think their thoughts in the subject is a mut to and welcome!.

What do you think about?. Btw, I posted in a thread started by DT similar " worries ".

Btw, +++++ " So an experiment using the Unitractor and the Mint (note that I did not use the word "shootout") would have more validity. " ++++++

could be a learning exercise.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.