A $300-$400 turntable tweak

My experience with clamps is that when I use my TTWeights Classic, I get noticeably better sound I think because the flatter records creates a more consistant azimuth, right? I lusted after the VPI center weight and when I got it it made my turntable sound horrible. Even my wife noticed a difference. You could play half a song with the VPI and then lift the cue and put the TTWeights on and immediately tell the difference and same if you did it in the other order. I think some bearings can handle a little extra weight but there's a limit.

Hi Dover:

I agree that a not-so-clearly-defined contact between spindle and clamp (neither snug nor free) is not a good idea. One some turntables, you'd want physical contact between the clamp and spindle, as this is what would allow the clamp to terminate the noise and vibration of the platter bearing. Something like a collet-chuck mechanism should do the job well. However, the FAR's self-lubricating polymer thrust plate is pretty quiet as far as I recall, and shouldn't need special treatment.

A slight overbore of the clamp combined with a polymer sleeve should be good. But not with teflon. Teflon is soft and has low elasticity, and once it is deformed, it stays that way. If you apply pressure across a wide area of teflon it stands up pretty well, but concentrated pressure on a small area is another story. Delrin or some grades of modified noryl (PPO) should be better.

You may also try a tripod-contact between the bottom of the clamp and the LP surface. For whatever reason, I thought that this worked pretty well on the FAR.

Regarding your second question, with the s-l-o-w spin-up time and all, would you really want a peripheral clamp on your FAR? (grin) Sounds damn fine without one!

I haven't had a problems with graphite mats, by Audio Tekne, A.R.T. and Boston. However, I have fabricated some parts in graphite, and I know that there can be sizable differences in the materials sourced from different suppliers. Some lend themselves to machining, and others don't. Also, for best results, graphite machining should be done by a place that is familiar with the stuff, IME.

As an aside (Dover, you already know this), in Kitamura's original FAR design, the platter was aluminum, and it was topped with a mat of machined chrome-copper. Either piece would ring beautifully on its own (although you'd not see it in the measured frequency response from the cartridge), but place the mat on the platter, and pfft! No more ringing, and a quieter, more even-handed sound delivery with greater dynamic range (although you't still not see anything on the cartridge's measured frequency response). The Japanese phrase for this type of mechanism would translate to "phase-interference damping". No idea what you'd say in English.

FWIW, I'm using the same principle in some of my cartridge designs (pressure-fitting of dissimilar metals which are chosen to suppress each other's resonant tendancies).

cheers, jonathan carr

PS. On paper, at least, another approach would be to get a snug fit between the clamp and spindle, and put a stiff grease on the spindle. The grease would lock the clamp in place and quash any ringing. You'd have to remember to wipe the spindle clean each time before removing the LP, however!

Yet another approach that you can take with clamps is to use a container filled with small ball-bearings. Staggering the bearing sizes helps to expand the range of affected frequencies.

Regarding clamps and rings, it all depends on the turntable, the type/weight of center weight and the outer ring weight. So many vaiables, no wonder YMMV...

For my table, the TT Weights Super ring and the clearaudio quadro clamp weight sounds best for my system.

J Carr - thanks for the info - very thought provoking. The clamp discussion certainly has me thinking. The FAR clamp has a proud rim on the bottom so the force is applied to the out edge of the label. My FAR is up to speed in half a turn - so not sure on your set up - I'm using oscilator preamp with PS Audio power amp & MIT cable in the supply & Silk thread belt. I can only think maybe I'm tensioning the belt a bit more than you. I dont think mine has a polymer thrust pad. I'm using Motul V300 Power Racing oil which is a synthetic using double esters which is very slippery and has very high unctiousness- ie in a motor it will hold a film in the head even if the motor is not used for some time. My racing mate managed to boil his porsche engine, melt brazed oil lines and still the motor kept running with no damage. I love the Ikeda cartridge, though it can be difficult - be great to see this cartridge concept continued after Ikeda goes.

Wow - this is quite the thread!!!

I have no doubt that what Halcro (a valued poster) heard was true for his system.

However, as user of both a ring and clamp, I have found differently.

Here is an anecdote. On my current table (Raven 1), which came with a Millenium clamp and mat, I found I didn't like the sound of the mat, which seems in opposition to many people with the same table.

But, I don't run my Phantom arm with damping, though most people do.

I just feel like there are no absolutes, especially with analog.

I also run a strain gauge cartridge, which is different than most.

I appreciate Halcro's findings, and since the system here is about to change radically with the addition of the TAD speakers and new TTweights Momentus Duo drive table (I'm a new dealer for both - hear them both at the Axpona NYC show) that I will have to reevaluate the use the use of the clamp and super heavy ring the table comes with.

I will also be reevaluating the use of damping fluid in the arm, as it changes to the new Phantom version with a 12" arm. Lot's of changes, lots of testing, lots of listening, but no universal truths I'm afraid.

On another note, the new table will allow for either rim or belt drive. That's another controversy I am soon hoping to hear how it plays out.