New 'Vinyl Flat' flattener?

well i don`t have a thermometer so i`m assuming if it is not accurate it is probably higher. yes i spoke to vinyl flat. he said at 170 to be careful; to start at 10 and probably go for no more thasn 20 min. i put in aretha franklin on checker with a pinch warps for over 20 min and no affect at all. here`s my rub. everytime you see anybody here on the net talk about flattening records with any method,it always seems to be albums. and i can see that as albums are not raised in the center so the weight is on the whole record with direct contact and not just hovering over the middle of the record. the other thing is; vinyl flat`s sheet that tells you the heating and cooling times for the different labels and for usin in the oven gives the gram weight of the particular label. well,these gram weights are all for lps obviously no 45 would weigh 95 grams and up. even if a 45 was 2 0zs that would only be 56 grams. so if they experimented on 45s; where are the results for it?? i will try ther oven with some milder warps for however long. if i keep getting no difference,this item will be returned. has anyone here personally flattened out any 45s with more than a slight warp via any method? if in the oven,what was the exact particulars and results?

Bigrod,
From what I see you're trying to flatten 7" 45s with the vinyl flat, right? I don't know that they make a 7" groovy ring. If they do, I haven't seen it. If you're using the 12" ring on a 45 I'm not surprised you're befuddled because you've missed the point entirely somehow. You may as well be using two sheets of glass in the oven or whatever. That doesn't work at all, I've tried it. IMO the reason the Vinyl Flat DOES work is that the groovy rings contact the playing surface intimately. The outer lip of an LP is raised as is the label. This leaves plenty of play for the LP to stay warped or warp in different places between two sheets of glass or anything else in an oven. Contact the maker and ask if they can produce a ring for 7" 45s. I have used this device and it is the ONLY thing I've ever tried that actually does work. No affect on sonics that I can tell what so ever. IMO the heating times for the pouch are way on the conservative side and in no way would I ever try to flatten a 45 without a custom sized ring. This is not that hard to understand. Why has no one explained this to Bigrod yet?

Although I've noticed from my own, non-scientific tests that the Vinyl Flat works, it works like a charm. I appreciate all of you who go to the extremes in testing, but IMO, no need. I've had experiences in which, say, Janis Ian "Between the Lines" original pressing was wavy when I bought it used. I put it in the pouch for 4 hours, it came out basically the same, I put it in for 4.5 hours, still pretty much the same. This "original" lp must be of a different vinyl formulation. Just a note, the lp sounded great before and great after. I've had more positive results with the same weight vinyl in other trials. The main point here is, with the pouch, I think it's impossible to destroy the grooves. I've flattend at least 100 lps, on two, I've left them in 3 hours longer than usual, NO DAMAGE to the grooves. This is an extremely well thought out product and the most enjoyable product I've ever purchased in the pursuit of vinyl playback. My personal finding is for a regular weight lp, 4.5 hours, a 180gr. 4.45 hours. This can vary upward when the warp is more severe than usual.
Sonfjim: After reservations, I emailed John Martindale about the 45 issue, he said no problem. I subsequently tried one, first at 4 hours, then at 4.5 hours. NO DAMAGE.

Rarely has the Vinyl Flat not at least improved a warp for me. In many cases, it eliminates them. I have no experience with 45s but I would assume a properly sized groovy ring would optimize results.

Based upon the great input from the Steve Hoffman web site, I recently purchased a very nice Beatles Blue Box. It is a 1982 version of the Box. Maybe not the Holly Grail but really nice all analog records. The one problem I had with the box is that several records were warped. Two of the records, With the Beatles and Revolver, would not track on my VPI Scoutmaster with Soundsmith VPI/Zephyr cartridge. I started looking around on e-bay for replacements of similar vintage. The problem is that other than the warps, the records were in fantastic condition. Maybe played once or twice at the most.

A year ago or so, I read about the Viny Flat in Stereophile in a Stephen Mejias article. He is a skilled writer, and in-spite of a catastrophic failure, I figured I would give it a try. Since Stephen’s failure involved cooking the record in the oven, I skipped the oven and bought the Vinyl Flat Groovy Pouch.

I went right for it and tried fixing With the Beatles. My first attempt followed the instructions and cooked the record in the Groovy Pouch for 4 hours. I allowed the record to cool in the Vinyl Flat, without heat, for another 4 hours of so. Yes, the record was approximately 50% better but it still caused my cartridge to miss-track. I then tried 6 hours in the Groovy Pouch. Now the record tracked but still had a hump that caused an audible noise. I next let the record cook for 12 hours and cool in the Vinyl Flat for another 12 hours. What came out of this process was a nearly perfectly flat record without any trace of damage to the record. It played and looked perfect!! Next was Revolver which I just let cook right off the bat for 12 hours and allowed it to cool in the Vinyl Flat for nearly a week. On the first attempt, Revolver was fixed. I now have a nearly perfect Beatles Blue Box.

I cannot say enough about this product. I also cannot imagine a scenario where the system, using the Groovy Pouch, would damage a record. It cooks it low and slow. My advice to anyone who tries the Vinyl Flat is to be patient. Let it cook a long time and then let it cool a long time in the Vinyl Flat. Also, spend the extra $60.00 and buy the Groovy Pouch. I would not use the oven. Also note that the Beatles Blue Box records were pressed on pretty thin vinyl. I don’t have any experience using this product with heavier vinyl. My guess is that the cook times would be very long. My start time for any record, heavy or thin vinyl, would be 8 hours and move to longer times depending upon the result.

The Vinyl Flat and companion Groovy Pouch is a fantastic product at a nice price. It is very well constructed and should last a life time. If there is one concern, the Groovy Pouch seems a bit fragile but I handle it with some caution and expect it to last a life time. If you have some valuable, but warped records, give this product a shot. I think you will be happily surprised at the results.

Dale