HELP-woofer moves alot when playing lps


Hi-
When I play a record on my TT, I get an excessive amount of woofer movement, even when no music is playing. When I lift the arm off the record with the finger lever, the movement stops, and the phono stage is dead quiet. Its only when I drop the needle and turn it up a bit, the woofer starts to move in and out. I dont get this when playing cds, only lps. I have my system on a shelves, with the table onto and my integrated amp directly under my TT. Might this be an isolation issue? Thanks in advance.
tbromgard
From a speaker perspective, big movement like that is way wrong. You are seeing a speaker attempt to reproduce a subsonic wave, introduced into the system by the playback system (turntable). Count how many times a second it moves and you have the freq-5Hz-7Hz? Subsonics eat up all your amp power as your amp is attempting to reproduce what you cannot hear and the power curve is highest in the low end. Moving woofers in out to their extremes as pushes the drive unit coils out their gaps (there is a point inside the coil where it is centered n the magnet and outside that, distortion goes straight up). Loud enough, it will damage the woofers as they are not designed for subsonics. Now normal audio is now riding on top of that woofer moving in and out, so its "smearing" everything. A mess for sure. FIx it fast.

Get rid of the subsonic input -a filter is the your best initial choice. Some built in subsonic filters are not so good-they are too high or use to slow a slope-like 40Hz is too high and if its slope is only 6 dB per octave, 20Hz will only be 6dB less than 40. If you still see some woofer movement after your engage your filter, or can hear the filter dramatically change the low end, find a better filter. However, some low end change is better than the tremendous masking artifacts and distortion the subsonics are introducing elsewhere. Subsonic filters at 20Hz are ideal, and a steep rolloff, like 18dB per octave would be best (20Hz 18dB per octave would mean 10Hz is 18 dB down from 20Hz). I defy anyone to hear a 20Hz filter (if you can, turn yourself in to science).

Next, find where the subsonics are coming from: a bump in the turntable /motor/belt? Acoustic feedback (improper mechanical or acoustical turntable isolation from the speaker)? Warped discs? FInd it and fix it. The KAB company makes an argument that rumble can be introduced by the cutting lathe (built in to the master disc) and this is true, but far less common than turntable/disc related problems within a turntable/disc warp/isolation. Most companies tried to catch cutting lathe issues on QC.
Brad

Brad
A search on "woofer pumping" shows 22 threads.

Tbromgard

I recommended spending some time isolating your TT, Gear and speakers better so they are not affected by structure feedback. The speakers can in fact be aimed at your TT - sound pressure (acoustic feedback) itself is not the problem. When the acoustic feedback is absorbed by the rack, shelves, floor and walls around your TT, gear and speakers and changes to structure feedback - this then becomes the problem - if your TT, Speakers, gear are not isolated properly. See also the last 30 or so posts on Copernican.

IMO - Any filter not recommended by the speaker manufacturer themselves should be considered a 2nd option only after isolation attempts fail. Its a band aid, another layer.

Good luck.
Thanks for the responses. I purchased the KAB filter. I dont believe isolation is an issue-the TT is well isolated. Also, the tonearm manufacture believes cart/arm mismatch is not the issue. The arm and cart are both medium mass/compliance and should work fine togther-so I dont think that is an issue either. I really dont want to add another circuit path for the signal to run, but it seems inserting the KAB filter is my best choice. I will report the results once I rec'v the unit. Thanks all.
Tbromgard, despite claims to the contrary woofer pumping is not something that ported speakers are prone to.

My speakers are ported and go to 20 Hz. They don't pump particularly more on LP than they do on CD.

This is a common problem with arm/cartridge mismatches. Daned's comments above lead me to suspect that he has a problem with this too. If you have a heavy arm and a high compliance cartridge, you are going to get pumping. The 'effective mass' and 'mechanical resonance' of the arm/cartridge combination are the issues you want to study.

The KAB filter is one of the best out there but if you have a transparent system with bandwidth you may not like what it inevitably does. IMO/IME you are better off curing the cause rather than the symptom. Good Luck!