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Is 60dB gain enough for Kleos?

At age 52, after years of technological philandering, I am once again courting my old vinyl flame. I just bought a VPI Classic 3 because it looks like it was built in the fifties, like me. Now I am obsessing over the selection of cartridge and phono-amp. Every man needs his irrational, unsubstantiated religious beliefs, and mine include vacuum tubes (very fifties-ish) and a transformerless signal path.

So let's say that for the moment I am enamored with the Fosgate Signature phono-amp, which having a 60dB gain without any input transformer. Now I have read that this works best with a high-output MC in the 0.8 to 1.0 mV range.

Here's the rub ... I am very intrigued by the Lyra Kleos, my fascination with which is due in no small part to the musings in these pages of J Carr himself. Alas, the Kleos has an output of only 0.5 mV. So I seek the advice of those who might have pertinent experience!

Dave
david_pully
dhcod
710 posts
 
FWIW, my Delos and before it a Helikon sounded great in three different unipivots so I'm not sure it's a general unipivot thing.
david_pully OP
29 posts
 
Jwpstayman, just for the record, what cartridge have you favored on your JMW arm? My target investment is $2k to $3k. My preference, if forced to choose, is speed and dynamics over lushness, although having everything without compromise is always best! :)
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Jwpstayman & David..., do you know the compliance ratings of the Delos and Kleos??

I own a VPI Classic 1 (w/Classic 3 arm). I've had mixed results with various carties. Finally got a SS VPI Zephyr. It works fine.

Also Jwp..., what did you find deficient with the Delos and Kleos?
jwpstayman
405 posts
 
Bifwynne, like you, I ended up with and am very happy with the Soundsmith VPI Zephyr cartridge. Prior to the Lyra carts, I have been using a Benz Ruby 3 which I really liked but which finally wore out. The Zephyr has the best channel separation and is the least affected by surface noise of any cartridge that I have ever used and is a lot less expensive than the other cartridges as well. Instrument timber and tonality is on par with the very best also.
jcarr
382 posts
 
Hi David:

Regarding suitable gain of a phono stage for the Kleos, I'd normally suggest 63dB or more, although if you have a high-gain preamp, power amp, or quite efficient speakers, 60dB may be enough (as J. Frech has suggested).

For lower-gain phono stages, I'd suggest the higher-output Delos, which is a better-sounding, better-performing cartridge than the more expensive Helikon (now discontinued).

One thing worth mentioning is that the phono stage design is very important to the perception of surface noise - a phono stage designed to have good high-frequency overload margin and linear, low-distortion in the ultrasonic region will usually sound quieter.

As I mentioned to your question in the other thread, I have used or set up the Kleos on various unipivots like Grahams, Audiocrafts, Moerchs, Spiral Grooves and whatnot, but haven't encountered any problems that I could pin down to unipivots as a category.

kind regards, jonathan carr
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