Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?


I have just acquired a 32 year old JVC/Victor TT-101 DD turntable after having its lesser brother, the TT-81 for the last year.
TT-101
This is one of the great DD designs made at a time when the giant Japanese electronics companies like Technics, Denon, JVC/Victor and Pioneer could pour millions of dollars into 'flagship' models to 'enhance' their lower range models which often sold in the millions.
Because of their complexity however.......if they malfunction.....parts are 'unobtanium'....and they often cannot be repaired.
halcro
Hiho, The information I have been able to gather suggests that it is simply more difficult to get torque out of a coreless motor than out of a similarly sized cored motor because the coreless motors tend to trap heat and thus overheat, and overheating is lethal to them. (The iron or steel core in a cored motor also makes a good heat sink, so motors intended for heavy duty and continuous operation tend not to be coreless.) However, the Pioneer Exclusive P3 (coreless) motor is second only to the Technics SP10 Mk3 motor in terms of torque among the TOTL Japanese DD's, as far as I can find out. (Perhaps the Denon DP100 motor develops more torque than that of the P3; don't know. It's as big as a coffee can, so I would not be surprised.) If you read about Kenwood's thinking in the design of the L07D, they actually did not favor high torque in principle. So they were not concerned with competing in that "horsepower" race. Also, the drive system (the implementation of the servo mechanism, use of a quartz reference, handling of the AC and/or DC, speed of the sensor mechanisms, etc) are also determinants of the success of a DD design; cored motors can be made to work just fine, IMO. The fact that Denon and Technics stuck with cored motors does not necessarily mean they were "stubborn". However, like you, I am not a motor engineer. Motors and how they work, what makes one better than another for this or that application, are fascinating and complex subjects.

Apropos of that, you cite the Brinkmann Bardo for using a coreless motor, and I did too in one of my earlier posts, but does anyone know about the Grand Prix Monaco, the NVS, or the Teres Certus? For that matter, what about the Brinnkmann Oasis?
Lewm: "The fact that Denon and Technics stuck with cored motors does not necessarily mean they were "stubborn"."

Sorry, I did not mean to imply anything negative about Denon and Technics not using coreless motor. Perhaps the word "stubborn" was poorly chosen but was really intended to mean they did not follow the trend as they probably felt their DD development were mature enough to withstand the shifting trend. I know I like the sound of several Denon turntables, coreless or not. I know you like your DP-80. As for Technics, let me just say I am off the bandwagon.... but that's a different topic.

Lewm: "does anyone know about the Grand Prix Monaco, the NVS, or the Teres Certus? For that matter, what about the Brinnkmann Oasis?"

The only info on the Monaco I can find is from 6moons.com that says "The finalized Monaco turntable runs off a 5-8V 12-pole DC motor inside the main chassis." No indication that is coreless or not.

No idea what the NVS uses.

The Teres Certus uses a CORE motor from pictures I have seen of its innards.

The Brinkmann Oasis is the same as the Bardo, except it has a plinth. The Bardo is the stripped down version of the Oasis for a lower price.

Motors are fascinating indeed!

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Lewm: "If you read about Kenwood's thinking in the design of the L07D, they actually did not favor high torque in principle. So they were not concerned with competing in that "horsepower" race."

I think I agree with that thinking and from the sound of many DD turntables with coreless motors it only confirms that. I much rather have a smoother rotation than just high torque. Judging by the reviews of the Brinkmann Bardo, a low torque design, they are onto something and the impression is that the Bardo does not have the stereotypical sterile sound related to DD tables.

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Ah Radicalsteve,
The luxury of two TT-101s ?:^)
Interesting comments on the two metal mats.
I assume you are thus using no damping on the aluminium platter?
Can you describe the differences in sound you hear with these mats over the standard rubber?
Would be appreciated?