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Thorens TD520 vs a restored Thorens TD125

I have been going around looking to buy my first TT, listening to many tables in the last one month. My current inference is that, mid level "modern" TTs (within $5k) dont cut enough for me. May be because they are designed to be revealing, they also end up revealing their own flaws :-). Either they sound thin or slow or sometimes very CD like. The good modern TTs are all in the 10k range (I am talking about the price of the table only).
Interestingly I still like the classic old school TT sound from the likes of Thorens TD125/160, Garrard 301 etc. There is something about their sound which is sweet and "analogue". They do lack detail and micro dynamics of the new age table but still have some rightness to the music. I dont know how to describe this character and what makes them do it.

This is the reason I have taken a step back and again started considering the older TTs. Currently there are two TTs on Audiogon which I am considering,

1. Thorens TD520 (stock with Thorens 12" tonearm)
2. Thorens TD125 MK2 totally restored by Christopher Thornton of Artisan Fidelity with Origin Live tonearm.

I have not heard any of these TTs and being in Singapore doesnt help. I have heard Thorens TTs and like them.

Can someone please post some opinion on which of these would be a better performer sonically ? I know both TD125 and TD520 were reference models of their time but the 520 definitely looks like a bigger performer. I am confused.

BTW, I have another thread running in the Analog section where we are discussing modern TTs to consider. I wanted to keep the classic TT discussion seperate.
pani
td160
74 posts
 
Actually I have done some research. I post it to my website.
The Analog Dept. regularly
http://www.theanalogdept.com

IN that site you there is quite a bit of information on the various models of Thorens as well as detailed information on the mechanical parts of each model.

Give it a look over and tell me what you think.

-Steve
jeremy72
97 posts
 
Absolutely great website, I am quite familiar with it but did not realize it was yours. Fantastic resource for Thorens, we are fortunate to have access to such information. Good stuff there for fellow Thorens fans who remember when the name meant something - integrity + quality.
td160
74 posts
 
I was reviewing some pages on my site and came upon one that shows at least some of the different bearings used on different models; include both mk1 and mk2 TD125 models.

The TD125 saw a re-design of its bearing housing when it evolved from mk1 to mk2. The mk1 has a cast aluminum bearing housing that bolts in to the massive sub-chassis by means of 3 machine screws. The mk2 has a different style of bearing housing that is much less massive in external dimensions, although internally the same as its predecessor, and is pressed in to the same subchassis.

Neither mk1 or mk2 allows replacement of bushings or thrust.

Here's a link to that page:
http://www.theanalogdept.com/td_platter_bearings.htm

I don't have much information on models like the TD320 or TD2001 but there are scraps of info. Here's a link to a page with a brief interview with Rolf Kelch. Rolf was in upper management at Thorens during the nineties and oversaw the product evolution during that period. He has some comments about the different bearings used in the TD2001, TD320, TD520, TD126 and also the Thorens Ambiance. Also there is commentary and some photos of bearings produce by a company in Germany called ClearlightAudio. They were and still are Thorens modifiers and did produce an upgraded version of the Ambiance bearing that was made available to various different models of that era.

Here's the link to that page:
http://www.theanalogdept.com/rk_125_6_sub-chassis.htm

I hope this helps to clarify some of the misunderstandings in the above posts.

-Steve
geoch's avatar
geoch
354 posts
 
When a fellow Agoner ask for advice about purchasing a classic Thorens, I would choose to point the 124 in his consideration. When one can overcome his fears of getting involved in restoration perhaps more than he is intented, the outcome not only justifies the effort, but the great pleasure of the ressurection procedure go beyond the limits of the so called "pride of ownership" as this TT can satisfies the collector & the demanding music lover with no equal in all of the industry's creations. I've used to have the 125 & 320 in my youth. But 30 years back my demands were not the same and today I regard my 124 II as the best TT I've ever had after many losted $$$ on contemponary "high-end" BS fashion units. James Campbell (jec965) was of a major help with his motor service, bearing cup, silicone motor pads, armboards and Mirko (sq38) with his new idler wheel. The personal involving procedure of lubrication helps me to understand the unbelievable level of engineering development & the high standards of the materials that this studio quality TT offers. Of course all of this disassembly and reassembly that I've done, was due to your site Steve. Thank you.
td160
74 posts
 
Yes. When the question becomes one of which model is the best built Thorens I think it comes down to three models. The TD124 and mkII, the Prestige, and the Reference.

The other models, many of them flagships, were also well constructed and meant to last, but the TD124, when you examine its innards, does impress. It must have cost at something like 50%-60% of the purchase price to manufacture one of those. Small wonder the company went into partnership with, first, Bolex (which wasn't a good match), then with EMT to help it survive. Fortunately, the EMT partnership proved to be a good symbiosis and lasted for a while. But it did cause Thorens to move its operation from Switzerland into Germany. A major uprooting and restructuring. The models designed and produced in Germany were distinctly different from those made in Switzerland.

I chose to answer within the Original post parameters. A simple choice between TD125 or TD520. However you are right, a well tuned TD124 will rock out with the best of them.

-Steve
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