MC versus MM. Which to choose.



I am pretty much a vinyl newbie so bear with me. What are the benefits and drawbacks of both of these types of cartridges. Is there a clear better choice for someone just getting into vinyl? The MM seem to be less costly but how does it compare sonically? Take for instance the Clearaudio Concept cartridge. The MM retails for $200 while the MC retails for $800. Is the MC version a better sounding cartridge?
128x128lostbears
Dear J.Carr: I own the L1000 and yes it is very good performer as the 100CMK4.

Now, on phono cartridges as in other audio products theory not always is confirmed through playback, many of us experienced this fact.

Of course that I can hear differences very tiny differences. Things could be that those differences that you and me are hearing could be " different " because different audio systems and maybe different main self targets.
What for you is right for me ( against my goals ) could be not so right.

Argue about could be endless till you can hear my system and I can hear yours: there are the main differences, different system distortions and different system resolution. I hope some time we can do that, IMHO could be a learning time ( and fun too. ) for both of us.

I respect your phono stage but our Essential is IMHO second to none. This is not the subject because I know that your audio systems are first rate.
As you I know what I'm hearing " problem " is that you don't know what I'm hearing and that's why this is an open invitation to meet you here at my place as my guest. You only need time to do it. We will see.

Yes, I posted that as designer/manufacturer is your privilege decide what to build, no problem with this.

About the AHEE pressure I talked that " pressure " exist every single day, customers almost has not a wide and free land to choose: for years suddenly audio magazynes speaks on the MC superiority and not only that but stop to review on MM/MI cartridges; audio distributors only marketed MC cartridges not MM/MI as alternative and even if they handle one or two MM/MI models they almost always took as a very inferiuor source; manufacturers ( like you ) for whatever reasons just don't care and diminish MM/MI cartridges as an alternative in his cartridge line, internet forums for years speaks about MC not MM/MI with out reasons.
I remember that when Lewm ask something to the designer/manufacturer about MM set up of the phono stage he was using with MM cartridges ( I think Ayre, can't remember ) this person told him something like this: " don't waist your time and go with MCs ", and this happen a few months ago.
As like this there are several examples of what is happening around.

J.Carr we can't close/disappear the sun with a finger: ask any of the top guys in Agon ( megabucks systems. ) about MM/MI or if 5-10 years ago they owned MM/MI cartridges when even today is almost an " insult " to think they can own and hear to MM/MI alternative: no way, it is a " shame " against its friends to have a humble MM/MI with them: you know, it is not expensive enough to own it and in the other side: distributor, reviewers, designers are not against but does not cares about and still think ( as you posted. ) MM/MI as an inferior source.

I respect persons that as M.Lavigne took the time to heard the MM alternative perhaps for the first time in last 20 years with out taking in count what his audio friends could think about.

For me this kind of audio environment where we have no alternatives is a " pressure " and there are other factors that the AHEE use to make that pressure.

I'm intenting to have a cartridge that can outperform every other cartridge we have today but I'm a rockie on cartridge design so I don't know if I can fulfil that target but at least I'm on this proccess.

I don't die for the MM/MI in the same manner that I did/do not with the MC, as I posted several times both are only alternatives and each one with its own trade-offs.

Anyway, I think you made your point of view and I made mine.

Could this change?, could be but the " future " is the " ball's owner " and has the last word in the subject.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Dear Raul, We have also this thread about 'Stand out phono
stages' in which the Lyra Connoisseur is mentioned as the
best phono-pre among all others. Whatever one may think about HIFI Magazines it seems that the common opinion about this phono-pre is universal. While your phono-pre is
according to you 'second to none' I have seen no reference
to your phono-pre anywhere at all. Tolking about 'biased'
opinions. While you have no any understanding of carts construction and production you have no problem at all to dismiss the opinion of one of the most talented designer we know at present. One which already designed and produced some of the best carts in the world. I mentioned earlier your arogance but this one is above any comprehension. There is something wrong with you in my opinion.

Regards,
Hi Nandric:

Some of Raul's accusations feel a bit hollow to me, since I for one never stopped listening to MMs or MIs alongside MCs (which is by no means uncommon among audiophiles in Japan). Hearing about Raul and other audiophiles "rediscovering" MMs or MIs therefore sounds rather bizarre. Also, Audio-Technica and Nagaoka-JewelTone continue to make and sell lots of MM cartridges in Japan, so I don't get the impression that there is a lack of development effort being put into the genre.

But everything is OK between Raul and me. I don't have any animosity for Raul, and judging from the way that he writes, he doesn't have any for me.

As I said in a previous post, my attitude to MMs or MIs is that if or when I can design an MM or MI that convinces me that it is is worth signing my name on it, I will add it to my product lineup. When and if.

But please, let's not create flames where there is no need. I will continue to design and produce as I feel is correct, and I am sure that Raul will post and design in the same spirit.

At the very worst, we will simply agree to disagree about our respective opinions.

kind regards, jonathan carr
Dear Nandric: I know I'm not your cup of tea, my personality that for you is arrogance only means what is a fact: you don't know me in almost no way.

About the Essential ( I'm not on commercial " road ". ) and about my " arrogance " I can tell you that I already heard in my system and other great systems almost all the top Phonolinepreamps through years to be aware if our design can fulfil our main targets that as always is to be the best: period.

I don't care about magazines I care about music and music sound reproduction at home.

Second to none: I can show it. Why not prepare a meeting at any place where exist a top audio system and where you or any other person could bring with any/several top phonolinepreamps including the J.Carr one and then I will meet all of you with the Essential to make a serious shoot out and then we will see if my statement: " second to none " could be confirmed or not.

Before the shoot-out we can arrage the shoot-out rules/mechanism and audio items involved. We can do it with two sources analog/LPs and digital.

In the mean time I can say you again that IMHO the Essential 3160 is second to none.

Btw, I'm not dismiss the opinion of J.Carr in any way. As acartridge designer he has that advantage against me but as an " audiophile " he as any other persons is just as me or as you. He has his opinions and I have mines, some times we agree and some times we disagree. In both sides for very good reasons.

Nandric, you as any audio roockie ( and I'm not saying you are. ) looks to the pro-reviewers, designers, manufacturers and even auido distributors as something near " God ", people that knows more than you.

Through my audio life I learned that that is not true, I know several " pros " that are worst than you are. Those kind of " especial " audio persons are only that: audio persons as any one of us. J.Carr or any other designers can have a superior knowledge level of what he design but in my case only in that regards.

In the other side we have to accustom that always exist people with a knowledge audio level superior to the one we have because there are several a lot of different audio subjects where IMHO does not exist any one that is " perfect " in all them.

I have two-three audio areas where I know I have a good knowledge level but I know too that in other audio areas I'm almost ignorant.

Problem with you and me is that you can handle my " personality " for what ever reason.

Stay calm and be happy, especially today.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Dear Raul, I have no idea how this Greek conception about
essences become universal because I am not aware that Aristoteles was teached everywhere. What I do know is that the Greek used this 'metal analogy' in attributing properties to humans. So if John has the property to be 'honest like gold' but robed some bank and seduced the wife of his best friend we feel somehow embarassed by those facts because they are contrary to what we assumed and believed. Consider this statement: copper sometimes conducts electricity and sometimes does not. This statement 'obviously' make no sense because we know that copper 'always' conducts electricity even if it is not connected to any electrical source. However this 'thought
model' is not adequate to 'describe' humans.
So, dear Raul, you get my praise with the good things you
do or have done and my critic when you state some 'bold'
things about your omnipotence ,extraordinary hearing capabilites, the highest level among all of us on your learning curve, etc.,etc,. This also apply to your gear.
I can claim as you do that all my componets are 'second to
none' if my own claims are to be considered as legitimate.
You stated explicite that your 'system' is better then the
'one'(?) J. Carr owns and this should 'explain' why you think that Carr is not able to hear the differences among carts like you can. But we , the poor souls, are seduced by
HIFI Magazines to believe that this J. Carr produced not only some of the best carts in the world but also the best preamp as well as the best phono-pre there is. Not to mention his proven capabilities. There is ,dear Raul, so much one can swallow depending on one's character and other capabilities but I am not among the 'blind followers' of anyone.
So dear Raul while you believe that I am ignorant about your capabilities you may be ignorant about my. I believe your descriptions of MM carts but am very skeptical when
you describe yourself. BTW is in Mexico the word 'modesty' totally unknown?

Regards,