surface noise and cartridge/ phono pre questions


Ok, here it goes. I'm very green to analog but thanks to Agon, I have so far been lead in the right direction. I'll cut the bull and get to it.
I'm currently using a Music Hall 5.1se, AT140LC cart, Musical Suroundings Nova Phonomena phono pre with a DIY phono interconnect. I'm loading the cart at 50k, gain at 40db, going into a AE-3 pre. I've made many adjustments to VTA (SRA), VTF....etc. currently I'm at approx -2degrees on VTA and 1.46g on VTF. I also tried a Shure V15 IV w/ ed saunders stylus, never could get it to sound right to me.
I'm very happy with the sound now and I think it's really close to the proper set up. I have Alison Krauss "So Long So Wrong" last 2 tracks of side 2 sounding sweet!!! The problem....I seam to be getting surface noise and pops with recordings that I would think should be better.
My main question. I tried using a lower cart loading, (2k) obviously this is to low, sounds super clean, black and quiet. Again, obviously, the highs totally diminish. Any suggestions on a direction I should go to obtain this sort of quietness without losing my high end?
I'm very new to this and learning daily but if I'm chasing my tail with my phono pre, cart, tonearm compatibilty, I'm open for suggestions. The more I read on here, it's sounding like this could be the difference in a really good phono pre. I really like the sound of the AT140 and feel that it is a good match for my humble tonearm and system. I'm curious on what you guys think and suggest.
If this is not enough info, I'll try to give more.
Just a quick note, I just hooked up the AE-3 pre last night and It's really something else for such an inexpensive investment. Great match for my SET45.
1gear
lgear,

Great post. It really helps when somebody provides a lot of pertinent information when seeking guidance. It also shows that you're thinking about as many things as you can!

First, attempting to address vinyl clicks and pops by adjusting cartridge loading (or any other setup parameter) is fundamentally unsound. The purpose of all these adjustments is to allow your system to reproduce whatever's on the LP as accurately as possible, not as a mask/band-aid to cover up noise.

With regard to clicks and pops, the obvious question is, have you wet-cleaned and vacuumed your LP's? If not, you must do so. In particular, I've found that enzyme-based cleaning solutions are most effective at eliminating the majority of intermittent clicks and pops. If you're playing LP's without thoroughly wet-cleaning them you're actually putting your expensive vinyl at risk for permanent damage. Dragging contaminants along a plastic groove with a very sharp, diamond knife is a great way to destroy the plastic.

Additionally, it's an unfortunate fact that inexpensive phono stages tend to exaggerate certain types of noise. Very sharp transients cause many phono stages to overshoot and go into ringing, which exaggerates the amplitude of the transient when the signal's sent on to the amplifier and speakers. This makes a record sound noisier than it actually is.

There's no adjustment for the second problem. The only "cure" is a better phono stage, which unfortunately means more money. I'm unfamiliar with your phono stage but of those I have used, the higher quality/more costly were almost invariably quieter when it came to the odd click or pop. Many noises and distortions that newbies attribute to mistracking, inner groove distortion, static or surface noise are greatly reduced or even eliminated by a really first class phono stage.

Stylus profile also influences how the cartrdige reacts to the odd bump in the road. Speaking generally, the finer contact surfaces of a fine-line or micro-ridge stylus ride much more quietly in the groove then larger, coarser elliptical or conical styli.

Of primary importance, however, is that your vinyl (and stylus) be made and kept scrupulously clean. This is critical if you're serious about LP replay, which it sounds like you are.

Best,
Doug
Doug,

Thank you for this help. I had a pretty good idea that a new phono-pre was the next direction I would have to consider. As far as the record cleaning and care, I currently use a Spin Clean manual system and the Spin Clean solution. It for sure helps but I have a pretty good idea that it's not the most thorough. I've been in the market for a record cleaning machine. I've been looking at VPI and Nitty Gritty. I'm hoping to come across a used unit in the $500.00 range.
Any recommendations on a phono pre that won't break the bank and would be a compliment to my system? I'm guessing that my unit will sale for around $600.00ish. I'm thinking I could add another 1k and pick up something used, if I could spend less, that would help as well and put money towards record cleaning.Also, any thoughts on used cleaning machines? I'm thinking that the Spin Clean could still be used as a pre wash for the heavy stuff on used LP's then finish off with whatever machine I end up with.
Again, thank you for the detailed and thorough response!!
Any recommendations on a phono pre that won't break the bank and would be a compliment to my system?
Unfortunately I don't have much experience in your price range. While I've heard a few, here and there, my partner and I leapt from our old c-j PV11 preamp with phono ($1800 when new and a nice unit) directly to our Nick Doshi Alaap, which retails for $12K+. The Alaap betters anything we've heard at any price but that doesn't help you much. I'm sure there are many members here who could offer some useful experiences.

Vacuuming is critical. The Spin Clean is better than no drying at all but it's bound to leave some moisture deep in the grooves (where it matters most). When the last of that grungy fluid evaporates not only is the grunge left behind, it can in fact be even more difficult to remove, since it's been broken down into much finer particles. I do like your proposed use of the Spin Clean even after you acquire a RCM. That makes sense.

A VPI 16.5 would be my choice in the ~$500 price range. Equally important is the choice of fluids. As mentioned, an enzyme-based solution (which requires some soaking time to be effective) is best IME for reducing clicks/pops. My personal preference is for the fluids made by AIVS. I prefer them to the MoFi solutions and either one is better than the old Vinyl-Zyme stuff. Haven't tried the Walker fluids, which also have a respected following.