Dear Charles1dad: +++++ " Ivan I know that Raulirugas means well but if you like the sound of your system that`s 'all' that matters. This talk about relying on measurements and liking 'plesant colorations' is the path to frustration, just trust your ears and you`ll be better off. I `ve heard too many components that are said to be 'accurate'(usally solid state) and measure great and sound nothing like music(my 2 cents worth)I hear at live unamplified events.
My advice is go with your gut reaction and emotional response to what you hear.It it moves you then you`ll know it`s right. " +++++
good that you know exactly what means to match at electrical level speakers with amplifiers that btw is something like to match the cartridge impedance with the phono stage load impedance with that cartridge or like to match a cartridge with a tonearm.
In all these examples that " match " is critical to achieve " near perfect " quality sound reproduction ( between other things. ).
I said in my post that it does not matters what we like but what is wrong or what is right.
Many people as you do not like accurate audio systems nad the main reason why don't like it is because for to many years we are accustom/biased to hear our systems full of colorations and distortions then when some of those colorations/distortions gone we don't accept it. Our brain is already equalized to those colorations and distortions and can't switch in automatic to a more accurate sound.
The music has accuracy and when it did not we can hear it at once. Accuracy/neutrality IMHO is a must to have in any audio system .
That you, Iramirez and other people like distortions/colorations we are accustom to does not means is right.
I like and try to grow up and IMHO I grew up and still do thank's that I always question not only my self and what I have but what the AHEE put on my head in the last 30 years.
Years ago I was thinking exactly like you and like many other persons but thank's to my high ignorance level and step by step I learned in this and other audio subjects.
As you I attend ( at least one day every week. ) to listen live unamplified music and sometimes amplified too.
The electrical impedance mistmatch between speakers/amplifiers is not only " measurements " but a Law's physics Ohm's Law in specific.
You, me or any other person can't argue nothing and I mean nothing against the Ohm's Law. The subject is , again, what we like it or not but that if we don't care about the Ohm's Law what we are hearing is only a cartridge/source signal with a heavy way heavy make up that nevr will tell us ( trough the audio system ) what is in the recording.
Of course that if you don't care what is in the recording then you can follow " enjoying " the full colorations and distortions that you as Iramirez are enjoying right now.
+++++ " It it moves you then you`ll know it`s right. " ++++
weel, music has the power to move almost any one even through a Walkman, again this is not the subject.
Iramirez: http://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-essence-loudspeaker-measurements
here you can take a look the electrical impedance curve on your speakers where you can see that that speaker impedance electrical behavior is not flat but a complex curve ( up and down over the frequency range. ) even more complex that what we can see.
Well, that is what the amplifier " see " and what we need is flat frequency response with out different output levels through the frequency range.
To achieve a evenly output level and due to that Ohm's Law the amplifier must have a very low output impedance ( around 0.1 ohm. ). When the amplifier output impedance is so high like the 2.0+ ohms in your Manley's the response on output level is not evenly but wit different output level all over the frequency range and this means: heavy colored reproduction.
The Ohm's Law is more complex than this but I explain in this way trying to made it simple.
What you are hearing are not what your Zu speakers can show you on quality performance level but a colored sound due that those amplifiers can't handle it.
in that link you can understand better what I'm trying to share with you and where you can read this:
++++ " With tube amplifiers having the usual high source impedance, the disparity between the impedance in the mid-treble and that above 10kHz will shelve the top octave down. Similarly, the reduced impedance in the lower midrange compared with that in the bass and treble will suppress that region somewhat when the Essence is driven by a tube amplifier. " +++++++
IMHO as our each one ignorance level goes down as better we can enjoy and hear what is in the recording.
Yes, exist some audio items that are accurate/neutral and sounds " terrible " but does not sound " terrible " because are accurate/neutral but because are not well designed, that's all.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
My advice is go with your gut reaction and emotional response to what you hear.It it moves you then you`ll know it`s right. " +++++
good that you know exactly what means to match at electrical level speakers with amplifiers that btw is something like to match the cartridge impedance with the phono stage load impedance with that cartridge or like to match a cartridge with a tonearm.
In all these examples that " match " is critical to achieve " near perfect " quality sound reproduction ( between other things. ).
I said in my post that it does not matters what we like but what is wrong or what is right.
Many people as you do not like accurate audio systems nad the main reason why don't like it is because for to many years we are accustom/biased to hear our systems full of colorations and distortions then when some of those colorations/distortions gone we don't accept it. Our brain is already equalized to those colorations and distortions and can't switch in automatic to a more accurate sound.
The music has accuracy and when it did not we can hear it at once. Accuracy/neutrality IMHO is a must to have in any audio system .
That you, Iramirez and other people like distortions/colorations we are accustom to does not means is right.
I like and try to grow up and IMHO I grew up and still do thank's that I always question not only my self and what I have but what the AHEE put on my head in the last 30 years.
Years ago I was thinking exactly like you and like many other persons but thank's to my high ignorance level and step by step I learned in this and other audio subjects.
As you I attend ( at least one day every week. ) to listen live unamplified music and sometimes amplified too.
The electrical impedance mistmatch between speakers/amplifiers is not only " measurements " but a Law's physics Ohm's Law in specific.
You, me or any other person can't argue nothing and I mean nothing against the Ohm's Law. The subject is , again, what we like it or not but that if we don't care about the Ohm's Law what we are hearing is only a cartridge/source signal with a heavy way heavy make up that nevr will tell us ( trough the audio system ) what is in the recording.
Of course that if you don't care what is in the recording then you can follow " enjoying " the full colorations and distortions that you as Iramirez are enjoying right now.
+++++ " It it moves you then you`ll know it`s right. " ++++
weel, music has the power to move almost any one even through a Walkman, again this is not the subject.
Iramirez: http://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-essence-loudspeaker-measurements
here you can take a look the electrical impedance curve on your speakers where you can see that that speaker impedance electrical behavior is not flat but a complex curve ( up and down over the frequency range. ) even more complex that what we can see.
Well, that is what the amplifier " see " and what we need is flat frequency response with out different output levels through the frequency range.
To achieve a evenly output level and due to that Ohm's Law the amplifier must have a very low output impedance ( around 0.1 ohm. ). When the amplifier output impedance is so high like the 2.0+ ohms in your Manley's the response on output level is not evenly but wit different output level all over the frequency range and this means: heavy colored reproduction.
The Ohm's Law is more complex than this but I explain in this way trying to made it simple.
What you are hearing are not what your Zu speakers can show you on quality performance level but a colored sound due that those amplifiers can't handle it.
in that link you can understand better what I'm trying to share with you and where you can read this:
++++ " With tube amplifiers having the usual high source impedance, the disparity between the impedance in the mid-treble and that above 10kHz will shelve the top octave down. Similarly, the reduced impedance in the lower midrange compared with that in the bass and treble will suppress that region somewhat when the Essence is driven by a tube amplifier. " +++++++
IMHO as our each one ignorance level goes down as better we can enjoy and hear what is in the recording.
Yes, exist some audio items that are accurate/neutral and sounds " terrible " but does not sound " terrible " because are accurate/neutral but because are not well designed, that's all.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.