Getting granite tomorrow.

Hi BlueRanger,

Here's the thing: Isolate. (Just as Doug suggests)

I love DIY projects, but there are times that proprietary products are very difficult to surpass.

You don't have to go through a lot of trial and error. You don't even have to learn manufacturer's specs. The Vibraplane that I bought works tremendously well.

My audio buddy around the corner has one, and has gone to the extra lengths to mass load the VP with a 1" thick steel plate. The difference between loaded and unloaded was very substantial. In my estimation it was worth the trouble, and I have to help him every time he moves his TT, the steel plate and VP, so it must be worth some Serious Sonic Benefit.

When time and finances allow, I will buy a steel plate to mass load my VP-TT. You may need to evaluate what supports this combination, because the VP is 150 lbs, the ballast is 140 lbs or so, and then there's the TT's weight to consider. My stack weighs over 500 lbs. Make sure your rack and floors can handle it.

If you want to see what the results are like, without spending $2500, buy a piece of slate (granite rings) 2" thick and two bicycle tires. Half inflate the tires and place them under the slate. Level the TT, level your arm, level your headshell and listen to some of the most wonderful improvement you may ever hear in your system.

In future, consider contacting the Forum BEFORE you begin collecting materials for a project. It could save you time and pain in the wallet.

Keep us posted. You're headed in the right direction: Isolation is a beautiful thing. It would be great to hear what you learn as you progress.

I have no relationship with Vibraplane, nor with Sound of Silence (Steve Klein's business that sells VPs). Steve has been a very gracious host and helped with my VP, even though I owned it before meeting him.

The idea for slate and bicycle tubes came from an isolation sales rep who took pity on a penny-pinching audiophile. When in grad school his class tested all the isolation devices then available. He said 95% of the results could be had with the setup suggested above. Either way, you win. Go to it!

Very Best of Luck to You,

David

Here's our poor man's isolation setup. Of course it helps that I have a PhD materials scientist at home to dummy-check my stupider ideas. This explanation may help demonstrate how breaking a complex project into its discrete elements helps inform workable decisions.

Step 1. Our rack and components weigh ~450lbs. The first job was to provide this whole pile some isolation from our somewhat excitable wood floor. That was easy and cost <$50. All I did was buy sorbothane pucks in the appropriate size, durometer and quantity needed to isolate 450 pounds. This was simple to calculate with the information on the manufacturer's website, or on McMaster-Carr's site. One puck beneath each of my rack's eight feet plus two more beneath the heavy end of the rack and voila! I won't claim it matches a Minus-K, but I can jump up and down next to the TT and it never skips.

Step 2. was to isolate each individual shelf within the rack. That was also cheap and easy because I followed the same strategy: small, sorbothane hemispheres or Vibrapods beneath each shelf, of a size, durometer and quantity suitable for the weight being supported. I won't claim this equals a Vibraplane, but it did improve the sound and cost peanuts.

Step 3. was to isolate each individual component from the shelf it sits on, and this is where the DIY/cheapskate model broke down. After trying several things we settled on Symposium Rollerblocks + tungsten bearings, cryoed. Four sets were not cheap, even bought used, but the improvements beneath any component with a large transformer, power supply or tubes were remarkable.

Step 3(a) was the TT, a special case. Any compliance directly beneath a TT has both positive and negative effects. It's a tradeoff between lowering the noise floor (due to better isolation) and dulling dynamics and bass response (due to unwanted TT movement). After trying spikes (no isolation, great dynamics) and compliant materials (good isolation, sleepy dynamics) we settled on Stillpoints with Risers and Inverted Risers. These provide a nice improvement in the sound floor with only a minor loss in dynamics and bass. A reasonable compromise.

Note, the Stillpoints were nowhere near as effective as the Rollerblocks beneath our amps, power supplies, etc. Similarly, Rollerblocks beneath the TT were a disaster. Different applications require different solutions. Further, everyone's TT and sonic priorities differ so YMMV definitely applies.

And then there's speakers... :)

Doug, that is a very nice explanation of the various steps and results. I had a different experience with my unsuspended turntable. I did put a Vibraplane pre-loaded with 136 lbs of steel plate ballast under my unsuspended turntable. Interestingly, I found that the noise floor was lowered AND dynamics and bass response improved.

It just goes to show, as you wrote, that everyone's TT is different and thus solutions may work in some situations and not in others. I will shortly be trying out a suspended TT on the Vibraplane, and I may find the added isolation is not needed and perhaps even detrimental to the sonics.

So Doug, what are you using under the speakers? Since I moved a couple of years ago from a nice concrete floor to a suspended wooden floor (albeit decently solid), I've come to realize (despite my best efforts) that some type of decoupling is going to be needed at the speaker/floor interface since too much mid bass energy is being directed into the substructure. And, it probably isn't going to be cheap. I've tried the Herbie devices and they were abysmal in my application. The next step is something like Stillpoint Ultras or the Track Audio decoupling spikes, but now we're talking quite a bit of cash for eight feet. I'd be curious as to your approach. Cheers.

Granite Rings....not a good idea