Technics SP-10 mkII speed adjustment question


Hi,

I'm on my way to complete my Technics SP-10 mkII project. Actually, a friend of mine, a professionnal audio technician, is working to upgrade the PSU, which is done but a small adjustment on the speed must be done and he need some cue on this issue.

We already asked Bill Thalmann, Artisan Fidelity and Oswald Mill audio. Plus, I'll post on DIY Audio today. We'd like to get the answer as quickly as possible to finalized this for the week-end. Hope someone on Audiogon can help.

Here's the message from my technician:

"Hello,

I'm an electronic technician and I do repair for audio equipments, vintage, hifi pro and more. I have a client here that brought me his turntable Technics Sp-10 MKII to fixed. I have a little question about it and he gave me your email because he pretended that you have some experience with this kind of materiel. So, hope that you can response my technical question.

I replaced all capacitors in the power supply and a big solder job. I checked for defect solders or capacitors on the circuit boards inside the turntable and I tied to do the adjustments . Everything seem good right now, the turntable work fine. I tried do do the period adjustment with the VR101 and VR102 potentiometers like in the service manual ( see attachment, Period adjustment method). When I looked the stroboscope at the front of the turntable, It's pretty stable but I can see a tiny rumble at 33 1/2 and 78 speed. 45 is the more stable speed for the stroboscope. So, I fixed the phase reference with T1 at 18us of period and I try to do the period adjustment at the point test T and S on the board with the O point for reference. When I put my scope probe on the T point, I can observe the stroboscope running. It is not stable at all. If I pull off my probe, the stroboscope is stable again. So When I have the 2 probes at point S an T at the same time to do the adjustment, it's impossible to fixed the wave T because it going right to the left on my scope. When I turned the VR101, the T wave going faster or slower but never stable. I tried to ground lift my scope, plug it into the same power bar and try to pull off the reference at the O point. I can't have a setup that I can see a stable T wave in my scope with the one that I can do the right adjustment. Why? Is there a problem with the turntable or maybe it's a incorrect probe or ground setup? Please let me know what you think.

Best regards"

Thanks for help,

Sébastien
128x128sebastienl


Understood and I agree. There are many plinths for sale that are nothing more than a cookie cutter hole in a piece of material. Hardly a proper plinth.

As for Artisan Fidelity, their plinth is a copy of mine and I resent that. However there are others and probably will be more.

My Audiogon Lenco project is here: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vbudg&1082337040&view

That was nine years ago, but I built dozens of plinths and worked with high end turntables thirty years before that post first appeared.

I agree most people don't address rigidity and that is perhaps the most important thing other than quality of materials.

The other people that put everything they know into making their plinth right is Steve Dobbins and Oswald Mills. All of us do it a bit different and each gets a bit different result but those are all originals and represent maximum effort.
"As for Artisan Fidelity, their plinth is a copy of mine and I resent that." Not so fast. Although Mr. Porter's tale makes for good story telling, anyone with a fastidious eye for detail and a keen memory should be able to spot immediately what classic Technics design was the near aesthetic duplicate of "yours". For those interested in investigating further, search Technics SH-10B3 Obsidian plinth on Google. Once a suitable image is located, note the familiar beveled edge angles (top and bottom) and armboard location and shape. Now, if one were to imagine this plinth's center slightly taller and a slightly longer armboard.....you get the idea. An original exterior design, yes, only by Technics circa 1980 or so. This base criteria also served as a personal design concept of mine on paper, long ago. Constrained layer damping in mechanical engineering is a practice which has been utilized in various industries, even audio for decades. Panzerholz, again, not invented or conceived by the poster above. Furthermore, the internals of these two respective Sp10 designs differ substantially. The method of cld layering, applied isolation, bonding, materials used, finishing techniques and implementation as a whole vary to a significant degree. The principal similarities of the plinths in question are almost solely aesthetic in nature. While we are sharing openly, inquisitive readers might also be interested in researching Artisan Fidelity's once unique practice of thick outer plank wrapping over a constrained layer core. This practice has been embraced by AF from the start and only later copied by certain others. If anyone is curious as to why another might suddenly switch their approach from thin to thick panel wrap, just ask, the whole story is an enlightening one, that much I can assure you. And the sudden offerings of Sp10Mk3's with aluminum chassis refinishes? A "copy" perhaps of our long standing practice or merely coincidence? The list goes on, but why bother....

Where credit is due on Mr. Porter's behalf, in my humble opinion, lies in helping bring to light the vast potential of these particular direct drives of a bygone era, the Technics Sp10Mk2 and Mk3 which were once overlooked by many, primarily as a result of poor implementation. (ie. plinth design) In this capacity, this individual has served as an inspiration to both myself and others. This includes the fundamental approach of Panzerholz core based plinths in conjunction with the above stated models.

Artisan Fidelity's core substratum methods employed for Panzerholz based and conventional style plinths have been proprietary since day one for each individuals set design requirements and tailored uniquely for each make and model. For anyone following our work, never have our aesthetics for the Technics Sp10 remained static and based solely around the vintage factory SH-10B3 Obsidian plinth or "Porter" style in question. Moreover, our latest Sp10Mk2 and Mk3 next generation design efforts build upon knowledge learned through previous conventional design approaches and are a significant departure from either.

Never has Mr. Porter made an effort to approach me privately regarding his feelings on the Sp10 plinth style matter, instead he wishes to continually express his thoughts in a contriving manor on public forums. Perhaps had he contacted me early on, and made the choice to discuss things directly like a professional, as a like minded audio enthusiast, we could have avoided these unpleasant and unnecessary forum antics.

Time to put this to rest.

The sorry "glass" plinth by Technics was a joke and none of the tables you list has a plinth with even a fraction the effort and material that was put into ours.

Albert, Why do you think the Technics engineers were able to make the best turntable, but they were not able to design a suitable plinth?
Albert, I wonder if your objective in your plinth design was to "sink" vibrational energy rather than synchronize ("sync") it. But maybe synchronizing vibration frequencies for turntables is related to British thin-walled speaker cabinets? ;^)

But seriously, with Lbeichev's question, I might guess that Technics engineers did make their best effort to design a suitable plinth -- for that point in time. If one checks back they will see Technics designed and offered a total of four different plinths for their SP-10 series of motor units and three out of four increased mass over the predecessor. The point is that much has been learned since the '70s when there were designed and sold. Just look at developments over the last 5-6 years in rim-drive turntables (Garrard, Thorens, Lenco) and how their performance has been improved. I suspect the current interest in DD tables followed what was learned with rim drive units (meaning mass and stability).
Lewm et all,
Sorry, I missed this thread initially. I have heard the SP-10 mklll with Krebs mods. In fact I have it in my system currently. I had some mechanical issues getting the table reinstalled in it's current Artisan Fidelity plinth but having resolved those it's running very quietly. I'm very happy with it's performance at this point.
I also have a mklll in a Dobbins plinth which has been my reference as far as silent operation is concerned. I would say the performance of the two tables is very similar at this point. It's hard to imagine better vinyl playback or machines more user friendly in everyday use.
Which would I recommend? Both. If carried out to their ultimate endpoint, both designs are reference quality in my opinion and a winner would be hard to chose. It may depend more on the look you're after. Hope this is helpful in some way.