Tube Preamp Paired with Tube Phono Stage?


Hello everyone. I wanted to know if you paired a tube preamp with a tube phono stage, would that be overkill with respect to the warm sound qualities produced by the equipment? I have a PrimaLuna Prologue Three with all NOS tubes, Clearaudio Smartphono, and CODA Technologies 10.5r SS amplifier. My turntable is the Pro-Ject Debut III with Ortofon OM40. I was considering upgrading to the Clearaudio Basic+ with battery pack OR checking out the new Manley Chinook. But, with two tube units combined, would that be problematic? Thanks for your input.
wescoman
The late Allen Wright was also among those reputable designers who advocated "no load", or 47K ohms in other words, for use with LOMC cartridges. I am sometimes astounded to read what some listeners prefer in terms of phono load resistors, often so low in value as to significantly drain off signal voltage to ground, i.e., where the load R is much less than 10X the internal resistance of the cartridge.
So we have support for loading at 100 ohms and 47k ohms, and possibly everything in between. So to summarize, it depends... :-)
Actusreus, if Fremer is not 'full of it', he was hearing those differences due to issues with the **phono section(s)** rather than the cartridges. 47K, 100 ohms, the cartridge does not care. I run my cartridges (Transfiguration Orpheus, ZYX Universe) at 47k with no worries, can't really tell the difference if I use 100 ohms. But our stuff is stable in the presence of Radio Frequency energy, which is in fact what this is about.

Jonathan Carr's comments can be trusted regardless of the LOMC.

You are partially correct with your summary in your last post. The entire summary should read: "So to summarize, it depends on the preamp."
To run a complete tube fronted is no problem, it depends on the quality (as
usual). There are differences.
Cartridge loading discussions were endless, are endless and will be endless...
To make it short, to dampen a cartridge means, you reduce their headroom,
47kΩ is 'open', you can hear the cart purest, the way it was made, when
your System is not up to the task to handle that (and most can't), you can
dampen it down (some say it has to be done based on high frequency
distortions but that is wrong). With one of the better Phono Stages you can hear
it easily when you step down from 47kΩ it always becomes more slow
and dull (but honestly a lot of Systems need that, the wonder word is:
Compensation, with Cables you can do the same)
To design a Phonostage which is silent, not sensitive to hum or other
influences, probably with higher gain (62dB and more) AND finally has to sound
like music and not dead and lifeless (most do) ---> this is VERY difficult to do ,
the Designer really needs knowledge about that chapter. In the last 15 years I
only heard 3 Phonostages which were able to solve that
- Klyne Phono 7
- Atma-Sphere
- J. Curl Vendetta
All the other countless designers will find endless reasons why their units run
best with 100Ω or 125Ω or 165,37Ω or 358.5Ω -:) but at
the end of the day, they can't do it better. It is the way it is.
Marketing can replace knowledge [and does of course and when it is repeated
countless times, it becomes ---> A Fact :-)]
Years ago a lot of cartridge manufacturers wrote in their datas: recommended
loading 47kOhm (Benz for example)....with the result, that the customers
tortured their dealers that their Phonostages were not able to run with
47kΩ (or they sounded simply awful with this setting, Levinson, XONO and
so on), and they didn't buy the cartridge.
No deal is the worst deal for a 'Dealer'
Now we have in the manuals: Recommended loading 100Ω -47kΩ
The problem is solved now.
That's High End :-)
If the Chinook is anything like the Steelhead, it will benefit immensely by
upgrading the tubes. In the Steelhead, I found the NOS tele to sound the
best in the 6922 slot. Try rolling the 7044's also, they aren't as expensive, i
think a pair of good raytheons were 95 bucks a pair. (Not sure if the
chinook uses the same tube complement as the Steelhead).
I've used tube preamps, line stages and amps since 1973- more modern
tube stuff is not the lush sounding stuff that most people associate with
tubes. Indeed, the Steelhead doesn't really sound like a tube unit at least
with the stock tubes (again assuming the Chinook has a similar character).
I am temporarily using a Joule line stage while I wait for my Lamm hybrid
line stage to get repaired and the Joule is reminescent of older style tube
preamps, very romantic, but suprisingly robust bass. It is a little too lush for
my taste with SET amps, but part of it, as you recognize by your question,
is system matching.
enjoy the chinook. Eva Manley is a stand up woman.

PS, again, not sure the Chinook is the same as the Steelhead in this
respect but I liked going into the MM input at 47k rather than through the
autoformers with both a Lyra Titan i and my Airtight PC1. Interestingly, my
new phono stage, an Allnic H 3000 is all about the step up transformers,
and there, the Airtight is sounding great. FWIW, when I ran the Steelhead, I
liked it just as a phono stage, with a separate line stage, and not 'straight
in'- it sounded a little too hi-fi straight in, and adding the line stage gave it
more dimension and palpability. Maybe just adding more distortion, I did
discuss this with Eva Manley at one point, who advocated a 'less is better'
approach, but to my ears, and extropolating my experience with the
Steelhead to the Chinook (FWIW), adding the line stage gave me more of
what my system needed to fully appreciate the Steelhead's strengths.
Have fun.
That, in the end, should be what it's about (although you'll catch me cursing
like a longshoreman sometimes when things go wrong with the system) :)