Just how good is the Technics SL-1200?

Hi Hesson11 - different strokes for different folks. The 1200 is a very well made table, but IME it appeals mostly to audiophiles who are more interested in build quality and the technical side of things than the actual sound, believing that if it is built out of materials they prefer, that it must sound better (not saying this is true of you, this has just been my experience). Also, most of them listen primarily to rock, apparently you are an exception here. IME, the 1200 does not have as much of the qualities I spoke of in relation to the vast majority of high end tables out there. A similarly priced Rega, to choose Elizabeth's example, will beat it for me every time. As Elizabeth said, I think if the table really was that good, it would not have gone out of production, with no similar replacement. I also never quite understood the popularity of a table that even most who love it think needs to be heavily modified. Again, I suspect this is because some people are more interested in tweaking their toys than actually enjoying the music. And that's OK.

There are many who do love the table, and no two audiophiles will have the same set of sonic priorities exactly. That's part of the beauty of this hobby. If you truly do enjoy it's sound in comparison to others mentioned in this thread, knock yourself out! Enjoy your music! As a professional orchestral musician, I am very glad to hear that there are still many fans of classical music out there. I hope you also attend live performances of your local orchestra or chamber group or university ensembles.

My personal sonic priorities are formed by the fact that I get to hear live music in a great hall almost every day. So while I actually dislike the term "the absolute sound," I do consider the sound of live acoustic music in a great hall to be a sort of benchmark, though an unattainable one in reality. For me, the Technics 1200 does not come nearly as close as many other high end tables.

Dconsmack - as my expertise is in music, not electronics or engineering, I cannot truly answer your question - I just know that I have heard many different tables in many different systems over the years, and the differences most definitely exist, especially when comparing different tables in the exact same system otherwise. This type of direct comparison can be especially shocking. Rather than thinking negatively about it and wasting time figuring out why I don't like something, I tend to ignore things I don't like as much, and focus on the things I do like, and when I have time, trying to learn why they might sound better. Folks like Atmasphere and Almarg and several others in these forums I have learned a great deal from in this respect.

Learsfool- I understand what you're saying. I'm am simply reporting that in my tests that I cannot detect any musical qualities that contribute either positively or negatively when comparing an SL-1200 with the same wiring, cartridge, phono stage via needle drops. That way I was able to go back-and-forth between recordings instantly to hear any differences. It's taken me years to do this and honestly, the musical differences just aren't there in a way that I can even convince myself of. I don't have perfect ears, but I know what to listen for. Changing a cart, a phono stage, a A/D converter (I've done many of each)... I can hear that. But, this is the reason why I love my Technics so much: it's sound (if it has one) is inconsequential. Only the technical aspects were noteworthy. And those were BETTER speed stability than a belt drive, BETTER tracking of sibilants (with my Dynavector 17D3/ Mint LP BestTractor Stevenson alignment, KAB Fluid Damper), LOWER noise, especially towards the center of the record, with the KAB Power Supply.
Add the fact it has the physical qualities that make playing records a joy: adjustable VTA, azimuth, detachable headshells with optional 4g weight, pitch control, platter braking, 78RPM, self leveling feet, easy and accurate VTF and anti-skate adjustments, etc. It just everything I want it to do, sounds amazing too. It's just... an ugly, mass produced TT and not for the people who demand beauty in design. I had to be honest with myself and let the sound and the performance speak for itself. I don't regret dumping my higher end gear. I've done my homework and I feel ended up with a better turntable.

Do the fans of the SL1200 believe that it is better than any of the high end direct drive tables of the late 70s, early 80s, when the japanese actually cared about turntables. I have a Sony PS-x65 and PS-x60 as well as a Yamaha PX-3 and technics SL1200, and I think the Sonys are easily better built and sound better than the technics. I am not impressed with the Yamaha, but many love them.
That said, my main listening right now is through an Oracle Delphi V SE. None of the above tables comes close.

I doubt if you'll find any 1200 fan who thinks it will run with an SP-10, SP-15, or Kenwood L07D etc, etc. The 1200 is an SP-25 factory set up for DJ/disco. It has great immunity to feedback, pitch stability, adjust-ability, and VTA on the fly. It does not have a 10 or 30lb platter for depth and authority, but it also doesn't have the often associated ponderous presentation, speed issues, and lack of PRAT. If the 1200 plinth is overdamped, and the arm wire questionable, it may compliment the sound of some carts/systems and/or be modified.

I've seen pics of 1200s with SME V, Syrinx and other high end arms. Ridiculous? I'm sure their owners don't think so. Before being discontinued the 1200/1210 went for $500 to $700? Can a similarly priced belt driver keep time like a 1200? Not even with an additional speed box. How much does an Oracle Delphi Mk V cost?

One advantage of the 1200, it's possible to get one of recent manufacture. All the rest is belt vs direct and YMMV. There is no Rega in this price range that can compete with what the 1200 does right. People have different listening priorities. To each his own. Spend lots of money and those advantages start to disappear.
Regards,

Learsfool, I respect your thoughts, even though our opinions differ. I actually had to overcome my prejudice against the 1200 because I think it's butt-ugly! I don't care much about its purported indestructibility, but it's nice to know that it will last a while, seeing that it's out of production.

I, too, listen to a lot of live classical music, and I'm encouraged to hear that you apparently are very happy with your Rega-on-Rega setup (P5 and Exact 2). I've always wanted to try a similar approach, but I've never been sure how the Exact would perform with unamplified acoustic instruments. So if I ever get a few extra bucks, I'd love to give that kind of setup a try. All the best.
-Bob