Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

Another one of these threads, so boring yawn ...

I find funny when I read from some of you suggesting these forums are free to communicate your thought's, REALLY?

I don't see it that way, numerous individuals come across as close minded taking it personally, to the point of such being a personal insult and dare you disagree with me.

Come on lighten up, it's only friggen equipment.

Goldeneraguy,

not everyone disagrees with Syntax fully, I'm a former owner of numerous TW products all the way up to owning their $40k + flagship BK table and 10.5 arm.

While owning I found listening to music as a whole just didn't seem right, one specific area being timing and rhythm "SPEED ACCURACY" I made these comments on numerous occasion to others only to be dismissed and to date still are by others "mainly TW owners" saying such can't be heard.

Now that's laughable :-) I find something wrong that a company selling a table in this price range and their product can't hold an accurate speed.

Is it that hard to do? Micro Seiki can!

I even commented to Thomas owner of TW my concerns when I owned my BK and when it went from Charge - Battery that I could clearly hear a difference sonically. Reply back from Thomas was .... you can't hear any difference. My reply back was kindly enlighten me why you would design a controller that is battery operated then if there are no sonic gains. Never received a reply back.

It wasn't just me who has heard this, I had others over 20+ individuals intrigued wanting to hear these tables.

I don't have a axe to grind and like to learn.

I was having a discussion with Albert Porter in what I was hearing and his polite response was try this and see if your SPEED ACCURACY is correct. I told him I used this and that strobe for speed set-up, he replied saying they aren't nearly as accurate.

I bought one off these SutherLand TimeLine pces and quickly found

These tables can not hold a accurate speed!

I still owned my AC3 at this time along with my Black Knight table, I tried my AC3 with 1 motor, 2 motors and 3 as designed along with the BK motor and controller found using the SutherLand no matter what I did non of these tables are able to offer speed accuracy.

I'm sorry but to me if you own a table and it can't hold an accurate speed it's flawed, no matter what else you do latter really doesn't matter because the speed needs to be accurate.

My 2cents worth.

Keep on truckin Mr Wonderful we know your turntable is the best on the planet!!

I have checked my TW BN with the latest battery PS playing a test tone on my spectrum analyzer. It was rock solid with no oscillation. I did this while on battery. I did not check while charging so I can't comment.

This is all done using an A to D converter into my computer. You can see everything spot on. The weakest link for me is the fact that a belt will always have some limitation on speed accuracy due to wear over time.

Speed accuracy is always going to be an issue with TW (not speed stability though, that's a different story). Yes,I also find that I could never get TW to be exactly at 33.33333333 whatever resolution Sutherland Timeline will give with me eyeballing it with a piece of graph paper.
The speed is always either a touch too fast or too slow.
I could get my Microseiki SX-777 Air dead on,sure. But exactly what does that mean? If TW can only do 33.338 or 33.33000 or whatever speed instead of 33.33333333...
Can anybody actually tell the difference? Pitch wise, it is not like it is going to be even closed to change A420 into A421 or A419.
Before invention of Sutherland Timeline, you do think that people have been listening to 33.3333333333..... I highly doubt it. Obviously people who were able to enjoy listening to turntable before Sutherland must have serious hearing defect and really know nothing about speed, right? Kab strobe does not even come close when compare to Sutherland Timeline. Strobe on my Micro Seiki SX-777 Air also is not dead on 33.3333333.. when compared to Sutherland.
I have no doubt that Dev hears something that he does not like about TW and that is perfectly fine since there is no such thing as univesally loved or perfect audio equipment. In his previous posts, I always find his comment very fair. However, some other people, I also learn to ignore as well.

PS has anybody ever tried Sutherland Timeline on recording cutting machine? I wonder if those machines will even past the test? Or whatever stamper making machine or whatnots?

Suteetat, I quite agree with you that the differences in absolute speed you posit are trivial and probably not at all audible to anyone but a super golden ear, of which there are very few. The real issue is speed stability, the ability of the turntable to maintain a constant speed over very small intervals of time (not "average" speed stability). If one were to graph time vs speed, where speed is continuously recorded, one would like to see a flat line, in other words. This is where some turntables fail and where some drive systems perform better than others. Even the Sutherland Timeline is not a perfect instrument for detecting such a high standard of speed stability, but if that red dot is moving in an irregular fashion across the wall, e.g., the red dot is displaced from its starting point by variable distances from one rotation to the next (good luck trying to measure that on a flat wall), then the turntable is probably not speed stable by this high standard. If the red dot creeps "regularly", I don't think that is so terrible, assuming the pitch is perceived to be correct; it indicates the type of slightly off-speed but stable operation you describe. My opinion, anyway.